Rules for 9 December 2004

Your Rules for Thursday, December 9, 2004

Forwards from Jeff : Rampaging and Pillaging [RULES]

I'm passing along some answers from Jeff.

First - on Savagery of the Moto.

The expiration of the effect that moves Regions between two Provinces will only move a Region from one Province to another, as that's reverting the original effect of the card.

It will not re-introduce the Region to play from out of play.

Further, if you bring the Region back into play, the new placement of the Region overrides old, pending effects that would put the Region into another place, much like using Loyalty Renewed, Kolat Master, or Feign Death would take precedence over the expiration of Show of Good Faith.

Second - on Gold Production and Aramasu's Pride

The number in the top-right of the card is a reminder of the card's Gold Production, nothing more. Aramasu's Pride will modify the production of any non-Action effects of the Holding that produce Gold.

In short, Aramasu's Pride will enhance Moneylender, but not Glassblower. It will increase the basic "bow to produce 1 gold" of Barley Farm to 5 gold, but Barley Farm's Reaction will still only produce 1 gold.

Thanks folks, - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey

Aramasu's Pride ruling: partial reversal

Greetings,

I've just updated the Rules Archive, and it includes this recent result of Rules Junta deliberations under Aramasu's Pride:

"Increased gold production applies to non-action gold producing effects and not apply to Reactions. [Partial reversal, JA, email, 8 December 2004]"

The bit about "matching the number in the corner" has been removed.

Zen Faulkes! * Crab Clan Scholar * Unaligned Archivist

<jimandandrealetters@h...>

Khol questions.

1) I attack, using Savagery of Moto to switch in my Plains of Otosan Uchi. I destroy it. Do I discard the extra card I had in my province immediately, or do I get a chance to buy it in Dynasty? Do I discard the extra card when I switch them, or do I get the chance to play another Savagery to switch them back after?

My first instinct is to say that if a Province has more cards in it that it can legally hold (because Plains isn't on it anymore), then you have to discard cards out of it until it is holding a legal number.

I'll double-check with Jeff, though.

2) I attack, using Savagery of Moto to switch in my Plains of Otosan Uchi. I get sent home. Does my opponent get to put two cards into that province?

He has to add a second card to the Province immediately upon having Plains attached to the Province.

3) I attack, using Savagery of Moto to switch in my Plains Above Evil for his City of Gold. I have The Shogun's Armory in play. Can I bow the City of Gold to help pay to attach an item in battle?

Control of the City of Gold does not change hands, even though the card changes locations. He still has full access to its abilities and you have no such access.

Bringing an Action into play - Egging a Shadowlands personality

Comments Below:

According to the Archive,

"Playing a card from your hand counts as "bringing a card into play" and not as "discarding" it, even if that card just has an immediate effect and goes straight into your discard pile. [JA, January 2000; 3 December 2001]"

[MARTY] That ruling is outdated.

"Normal" Action Cards played from your hand do not enter play. Only cards that specifically say to put them into play (like the Egg of P'an Ku) or are of a card type that specifically enters play (like Formations and Terrains) enter play. Other Action cards are played and go to the discard pile. They are still, however, not considered to be "discarded," like a card you put into the discard pile without playing would be.

If I play the Egg of P'an Ku and I'm targeting a Shadowlands card, I'm bringing a card into play (the Egg of P'an Ku action card) and I'm giving that card the Shadowlands trait at some point in the card's effect. According to the Archive, "Any single card or action that brings a card into play and gives it the Shadowlands trait is considered to be "bringing a Shadowlands card into play" regardless of the exact relative timing of the two effects."

[MARTY] That entry is - also - outdated. Jeff has already ruled that bring an Egg into play and then making it Shadowlands by copying will not count as "bringing a Shadowlands Card into play," for such purposes.

In fact, I made the same argument then that you're making now based on the same rulings, which is what lead to the change.

Could this please be added to the rules archive under the Egg? I see many questions on this subject in games and on message boards and I often see players give conflicting answers to the question.

[MARTY] I think this is more a matter of cleaning up the older rulings that conflict with the more recent standard.

- Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey

Loyal

Ooh, I've got a fun one. My opponent has P'an Ku in play, and copied the "Scorpion Clan Air Shugenja" from his own Yogo Rieko (he's playing Scorpion).

That's not all one trait. That's three traits:

Scorpion Clan Air Shugenja

He can copy one of them at a time.

For the purpose of this example, we'll go with "Scorpion Clan" as the trait P'an Ku copied last.

I'm a sneaky Scorpion as well, and Show of Good Faith his P'an Ku, and use his ability to copy the "Loyal" trait of my own Bayushi Paneki - thus, P'an Ku loses the Scorpion affiliation, and if nothing else happens, I'll keep him forever.

Sure. That's sounds like fun.

Now, I attach Tejina's Blessings (there's a reason why I'm playing Scorpion, you see) to P'an Ku, and give him the Scorpion trait.

The turn ends. What happens? Both SoGF's and Tejina's Blessings' effects end simultaneously, and I cannot both send P'an Ku back and keep him, so I'd say there's a conflict; do I get to choose which effect ends first?

Well, I don't think the two effects really conflict. If the effect giving you control of the card expires at the same time as the effect giving you the trait that would make you able to give back the card, then lacking both, Loyal would keep P'an Ku where he is.

I'll double-check that with Jeff, though. He's better with picking out conflicting vs. not conflicting than I am.

Wear Him Down + Tsuma Dojo (was Re: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 4 Decemeber 2004 [RULES])

Comments Below:

So since I have to 'focus with it' I could not use reactions like Smoke and Mirrors or Shadow's Claw from the discard pile, but rather just focus their cards (smoke being a zero)?

[MARTY] Exactly.

But wear him down works fine, right?

[MARTY] I don't think so.

You can Focus with Wear Him Down without playing it for its Reaction. You put it face-down like any other card. When Wear Him Down is in your hand, you have the option of playing it for its Reaction (which happens to Focus the card anyway) or Focusing it like a normal card.

You can only play an Action Card for one of its Actions from your hand unless a Rule or Effect specifically overrides that prohibition.

Tsuma Dojo only grants you the ability to - Focus - with a card in the Discard Pile. It does not say that you may take any Action on that card as if the card were in your hand.

Since you can still use Tsuma Dojo's ability fully without breaking the basic rule that Action Cards must be played for their Actions from your Hand, Tsuma Dojo does not allow you to break that rule and play Wear Him Down for its Action from your Discard Pile.

You must simply focus it for its Focus Value.

- Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey

Rules for 4 Decemeber 2004 [RULES]

Comments Below:

--- In, "David Winner"

"Tsuma Dojo only grants you the ability to - Focus - with a card in the Discard Pile. It does not say that you may take any Action on that card as if the card were in your hand."

Yeah but Wear Him Down isn't an action, it's an effect.

[MARTY] The first line in the text box of "Wear Him Down" is "Reaction:" in Bold Text.

If that "isn't an action," then something is - seriously - wrong or I missed an Erratum.

If this was true then LYSGY also is nothing but a zero when focused!

[MARTY] Let Your Spirit Guide You has no printed abilities at all. It does not say, "Battle," "Open," "Reaction," or "Limited" anywhere on the card.

Nor does Kharmic Strike, for that matter.

- Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey

Playing

What is the current defination of the following terms:

Play Playing Cast Casting

I'm not giving strict dictionary-type definitions for those, though Jeff might. Their meaning is mostly based on context of use. I'll answer specific questions about the use of those terms of specific cards, though.

If a card said 'After playing a follower from your hand, draw a card'. At what point would you draw the card?

When you play a non-Action card like a Personality, Region, Holding, Event, Follower, Ancestor, Item, or Spell, "after playing" means "after bringing the card into play."

Playing Actions and Action Cards is different. Resolving Events is also different.

Misdirection Question

Could you answer, please, can I target an illegal target using misdirection?

Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 74, first paragraph:

"You can redirect an action or effect only to something else it could have targeted originally."

Can I target a courtier out of the battlefield?

Misdirection says, "target a Courtier Personality or Gozoku Personality you control."

That doesn't have any requirement as to where your Courtier Personality must be.

I can't target another players personalities with the redirection, can I?

What you can and can't redirect the Action to is based completely on the targeting requirements for that Action to have been a legal play for your opponent in the first place. That would prevent you from redirecting things that specify "opposing" to units in that player's own army, and other such silliness. However, more general targeting like, Utz ("Give an opposed Personality +2F until the end of this battle.") could be legally played on your Personality just as easily as his Personality.

That should cover everything for Thursday. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] as part of your Clear and Distinct subject line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.