Rules for 12 October 2004

Your Rules for Tuesday, October 12, 2004

Kihos and relevence....

I was pretty sure about what was considered relevant and what wasn't until recently. Can a monk at battle A cast Chasing Osano-Wo on a personality at battle B? On that same stream of logic, can a monk at battle B use Flee the Darkness for an action taken at battle A?

Flee the Darkness is a Reaction. It is not affected by the Rule of Relevance at all, as that applies only to Battle and Open Actions.

As for Chasing Osano-Wo, your example is fine so long as either Battle A or Battle B is the current battle. Chasing Osano-Wo is targeting both monks, after all.

Rules for 6 October 2004

Comments Below:

--- Alexander Lewis Jones <alex@s...>

rules: Playing With Madness + Iuchiban Sensei

Your Rules for Wednesday, October 6, 2004

* * * * * * * * * *

I think your answer is wrong.

* An action is successfully performed after all costs are paid and giving other players the opportunity to perform Reactions to it. [JA, 26 April 2002]

The trigger time for Iuchiban Sensei's Reaction is as described in this ruling: after costs are paid, but before any effects resolve. "After the action has resolved" is too late to take an "after a Personality performs an action" reaction.

[MARTY] You're wrong on an important count, there are TWO conditions to using Iuchiban Sensei. Until you have the Bloodspeaker Trait, only ONE condition is met, so the Reaction Trigger is not valid yet. Hence you haven't passed your opportunity to take the Reaction.

Once you acquire the Bloodspeaker Trait from Playing With Madness, both conditions are met and the following are all now true:

1.) A Bloodspeaker Personality is Performing a Maho Action (you're Performing while all immediate effects of the action resolve)

2.) The Action is considered to be "Performed" (legally targeted, paid for)

3.) You have not already moved past the timing window of opportunity to React to 1 & 2 being true at the same time. (all players passing on Reactions)

You must then immediately respond to this trigger with Iuchiban Sensei's Reaction, or not at all.

- Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey

Please Archive This (Re: [L5R-CCG] Rules for 6 October 2004)

From the Rules for 8 March 2004, Jeff said:

"> Any card that says 'Search your deck': May I voluntarily fail to find something that I am instructed to search for?

No. But generally, you may voluntarily find something you cannot play."

Could this one be put in the archive?

That post has two points to it:

* If a effect says to search your deck for something, and your deck contains anything at all that matches the criteria, you cannot choose to fail to find one.

* What you do after you find the card is a separate effect from the search and does not impose additional restrictions on the search.

Which one should be archived?

It's not possible to deduce the answer (one way or the other) from the rulebook or accumulated rulings right now.

I respectfully disagree. The first point comes straight from card text, not the rules or a ruling. (So technically, you are correct, but it's a moot point.) If you search your deck for a Weapon (for example), and your deck has Weapons, yet you purposefully don't find one, you're disobeying the card.

The second is derived from the rule that each effect of a card is separate.

new Rules Deputy

I'm pleased to announce that we are recognizing MaPhi Messner in the capacity to make official rulings. MaPhi has been the head judge at two Kotei and a European Championship so far, and he is active on German language forums, so we have plenty of confidence in his knowledge of the game.

Welcome to the team, sir!

Iuchi Ryoi

Iuchi Ryoi's action reads:

"Maho Limited: Once per turn, send an Item to it's owner's hand. You may then remove an Item in your hand or discard pile from the game. If you do not, permanently give Ryoi -2C."

The rulebook (p102) defines "owner" thusly:

"The player whose deck a card was in when the game began, regardless of whether it is in play or who currently controls it. Cards and tokens created during the game are owned by their creator."

So even if a card is in your deck, it still has an owner. Can Ryoi's action then be used to get items from your deck or discard? I expect that the intent is that it can't, but I'd like to know how to read this card.

The trick here is that unless an effect specifically requires you to choose a card from a zone outside of "in play" (thus invoking the First Cardinal Rule on page 34) you can only choose a target in play. (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 73)

Also, as an aside, if I target an item token with this action, what happens? I assume it just disappears, since it can't go in the hand. Does the ruling on Stern Reprimand apply here?:

The token is removed from the game. The Rules Team is working on the appropriate rule for this for Lotus, but for now until we tell you otherwise, remove any token from the game whenever it leaves play.

Some questions on rules

Are senseis considered cards? Will purity of the seven thunders destroy the jiggoku sensei?

No. The Keyword Rule (DE Rulebook, page 64, line #) specifies that it does not apply to Strongholds or Sensei. Hence, Jigoku Sensei can not have the "Shadowlands" trait from having "Shadowlands Sensei" printed on it.

If a shugenja is dishonored when it is discarded using the jiggoku sensei, will they stay dishonored if they reentered play.

Leaving play does not alter any permanent changes to the card, include Dishonored status.

That should cover everything from Tuesday, October 12, 2004, except for one question that Jeff already answered on Thursday, so I'll include it in the Thursday Digest. If I missed any other non-Dawn of the Empire questions, please repost them with the flag [RULES] as part of your Distinct and clear Subject Line. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.