Rules for 22-25 August 2004

Your Rules for 22-25 August 2004

Overlay vs. Buy

Is overlaying the same as purchasing normally for the restirction "will only join clan x". In other words, can a Mantis player buy Chagatai, then overlay Chagatia xp. 2?

[MARTY] Page 66 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook says, "Overlay doesn't countas bringing a card into play; ignore all of the card's play restrictions and effects triggered by the card "entering play" or "joining a player."

Rules questions for ninja tricks

1) Tishi Sensei says my honor gains have a maximum value of 1. If I bring in a personality for full to gain one honor (or gain honor in any other way, really) can my opponent use Doji Nagori's ability to increase the gain, even though I won't get the additional honor, and gain an honor himself from Nagori's ability? I would think not due to the wording of Tishi being a "maximum value of 1".

He can use the ability. The value of your honor gain is still capped at 1. The other part of Nagori's ability resolves just fine. Nagori's controller gains 1 honor.

2) If I play Knife in the Dark on my Ninja and an opponent bows two Courtiers and a Meditation Chamber to gain two honor later in the turn, can I use the second reaction on Knife in the Dark to issue an unrefusable challenge to one of the two courtiers involved in the action? I would think so since the action on Meditation Chamber is Political, and the two Courtiers are involved in the action.

Of course you can. That's why the Action grants the Ninja abilities rather than creates the effects itself - so you can use them when appropriate later in the turn. Yes, the political action is performed by the courtiers. They are bowing to pay the cost, and that's one of the qualifiers for "performing."

Arms Merchant and Shinden Horiuchi

Arms Merchant produces 4 Gold if you have put an "Item card" into play. If I'm playing out of Shinden Horiuchi (which talks about "Items", but not Item cards), will playing a Spell cause AM to produce 4 Gold?

Shinden Horiuchi only makes Spells you control into Items. The Spell will only be an item once it has been attached. It isn't an Item when you are paying to play it, so Arms Merchant won't be of any help.

Shark Tossing question

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comments below:

I have a personality with 3 Chi and 2 PH.

My opponent casts Force of Will bringing me to 2 chi and 3 PH - this is a reduction in Chi from another player's card.

I react with Ambush at Sea, giving my personality +5 Chi. At the end of the turn, the stats switch back and I go from 7 Chi, 3 PH to 3 Chi, 7 PH.

[MARTY] Incorrect.

Force of Will does not say, "Switch the stats again at the end of the turn. That change is permanent." Instead, the effect started when Force of Will was cast (+1PH, -1C) ends.

So you have 1 less PH and 1 more C. You are 8C, 2PH.

Regardless, it is not considered to be a penalty or loss of stat when a bonus expires, nor a gain when a penalty lapses, as per page 62 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook, "Bonuses and Penalties."

I.e., can I play a second Ambush at Sea when my Chi and PH switch back at the end of the turn?

[MARTY] No, for both stated reasons.

Imperial Quest vs. Ruby of Iuchiban XP

Let's say I use the experienced Ruby of Iuchiban's effect on an a personality that is bowed by Imperial Quest. Imperial Quest reads the Personality's controller gains 2 Honor each time he CHOOSES not to straighten the Personality. Does he continue to gain honor as long as he remains bowed? My belief is no, because the controller no longer has the choice of whether or not to straighten him.

I agree. There is no longer a choice, and Imperial Quest only works when you make that choice.

Base Province strength and Sensei

Well, in the rulebook Base value is the same as Printed value.

However, with all that sensei rules change... I am not sure to undersatnd what happens to province strength and familial honnor reductions on sensei cards.

So, If I play tomorrow sensei. Is my base province strength 10 or 13 ?

Jeff sent me an email about this a couple of days ago:

"The *base* strength of each of your individual Provinces equals the *current* Province Strength stat of your Stronghold.

In particular, this means that The Barbarian Wall will take into account modifiers to Province Strength from the target Province's player's Sensei."

Troll Warband - weird rules situations

One of the new Dawn of the Empire cards is "Troll War Band".

It has the trait "While Troll War Band is unbowed in the current battle, you cannot pass."

It also has two Battle actions which bow Troll Warband.

I was just wondering what happens in the following situations:

1) Your opponent plays Deadly Ground. You cannot take an action, and cannot pass.

2) Troll Warband has both it's abilities removed (Say, by Same Old Tricks after multiple Well Prepareds). You have no other Battle actions you can play.

3) As above, Troll Warband has both it's abilities removed (Say, by Same Old Tricks after multiple Well Prepareds). You have a Battle action you can use any number of times (For example, Hoshi Eisai XP).

I realise that it's a little premature, I just thought that it was a really interesting situation.

If you can't do anything at all, you have to pass.

WoE rulebook change to tokens

Hi all,

Just got back from playing in the Wrath pre-release, and I had some questions regarding the changes made to tokens.

for those who don't have a copy, here's the text:

/start quote

Tokens (p71)

This section has been greatly expanded.

The second paragraph should read "some effects create Follower tokens, or Item tokens, or Personality tokens. Any token that matches a card type (see p 59-61) is considered a card in every way as well as a token. Other kinds, such as Weapon or Fire tokens, are tokens only."

Any card or action that creates a token is considered just as much the source of all the token's immediate effects as the token itself is. For example, an action that creates a +1F token on a Personality is treated as an action that creates a Force bonus.

Only cards can bow. Pure tokens cannot bow, including to pay costs. Things that count as both tokens and cards follow the rules for cards.

/end quote

This seems to clear up a few problems with token personalities (Essence of Gaki-Do, Bayushi Tai XP), who couldn't be bowed by other players card effects.

My problem is with the statement: "Other kinds, such as Weapon or Fire tokens, are tokens only."

Unless I missed something, a Weapon token is an Item that is attached to a personality, not something like a Spirit, Poison, Aura, Fire or unnamed (eg -1 chi) token, that is not attached but is a permenant change that goes away if they hit the discard pile :)

You've missed something. "Weapon" is not a card type. It is a trait. Being a Weapon does not automatically make something an Item.

If a token counts as an Item, it will be both a token and a card regardless of what traits it has.

OK, that should cover everything non-Dawn related for August 22-25. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] in the subject line and I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.