Rules for 13 June 2004

Your Rules for Sunday, June 13, 2004

Rules: Hiruma Asahei vs. Iajitsu Challenge

Can Hiruma Ashihei refuse an Iajitsu Challenge, then cancel the challenge before it dishonors him and before the player loses 7 family honor?

It works like this:

Resolve each effect of the Action normally, until you reach "dishonor Hiruma Ashihei." At that point, Cancel the Action. It produces no further effects, but no effects it previously resolved are undone.

In the case of Iaijutsu Challenge, you'd refuse the challenge. Then you go on to the next sentence of the card's effects: "If the challenge is refused, Iaijutsu Challenge dishonors -" CANCELED!

And that's all she wrote. No dishonoring Ashihei. No losing 7 honor. Iaijutsu Challenge is canceled.

The only way to get around this would be to actually remove Ashihei from play after he refuses but before he is dishonored. A means to this end would be challenging him with Kitsuki Iweko in response to his refusal of the challenge and cutting him down. That would invoke the whole "if the target ceases to be a legal target, the action will have no further effects on that target," rule. The Action would not be able to dishonor Ashihei so he wouldn't cancel it. The loss of 7 Honor would then go off without a hitch.

card memory

1) I've heard that if player A uses Show of Good Faith on a personality, then kills that personality and uses Feign Death, then player A retains control of the personality permanently, but no longer has the "May not attack" clause. Is this the case? If so, what's the reasoning behind it.

Well, the "may not attack" clause issue is simple - the duration of that effect expired the minute the Personality died, as per the card text. Show of Good Faith says, "You may not declare an attack or move cards or tokens to or from that Personality while he or she is under your control."

If the Personality leaves your control for even a second, the duration has expired. It does not "switch back on" or somesuch just because you regain control of the Personality. It is a one-shot effect from an Action. Once it expires, it is gone forever. Cards are not under your control in the Discard Pile, so dying will remove a Personality from your control.

As for "retaining control of the personality permanently" part, let me be rude and pose you a question in return: Who is the controller of a Personality, by default?

The default controller is the last player to bring that Personality into play (whether it by through conventional purchase from your own provinces, purchase from your enemy's provinces via Kolat Recruiter, or a return-to-play effect like Feign Death or Pit of Blood). That player is that Personality's default controller when all other "gain control of" effects expire.

So, when the "gain control of Personality X" effect of Show of Good Faith expires, who controls the Personality - barring any additional effects like Kolat Master? Control goes to the last player to bring the Personality into play - in this case the "thief" who stole, murdered, and Feigned the Personality.

2) Oni of Beefiness uses Wanton Destruction and targets Pud A and Pud B. He loses the duel to Pud A, but Feigns Death. Does the Oni still get to duel Pud B or does the Wanton wear off once he died?

Once the Oni leaves play, he's an invalid target for Wanton Destruction. Once a card becomes an illegal target for an Action, all that Action's attempts to affect that card will fail (get Negated). It does not matter if you become a legal target again later - even a split second later. Once you go illegal, the Action won't affect you anymore.

Since it takes two to tango, you won't see any second duel happen. However, since your Oni died before it received that -4F penalty, that effect won't happen either.

You win some. You lose some.

Shadowed Towers + Storm Heart

Player A got Taneji, Player B another Peep, Player A wants to play a Storm Heart. After "Pay Costs" the action counts as "succesfully played" (Shadowed Tower's Trigger), so Taneji is allowed to shuffle Strom Heart back into the Fate Deck, right?

Sure

But then he would be unbowed during the "Resolve Action" step, is there anything, that checks again if Taneji is still unbowed, or only during the targeting step? Is Taneji allowed to duel Player B's Peep?

Well, the rulebook does specifically state, "a bowed Personality may not cast Spells, and may not perform actions that issue challenges." (Page 54)

Taneji is definitely performing Storm Heart, as per the criteria on page 71.

He is performing all the way through the challenge and duel so long as he lives. I'm not sure exactly what happens when this rule about performing is violated part-way through an Action.

I mean, there are plenty of Performed Actions that could have their Performing Personality become ineligible through the natural progression of their effect - To Do What We Must being a prime example.

With that in mind, I don't have a whole lot to go on either way, so I'll punt this to Jeff.

- Forwarded

questions

If a courtier is targeted with Eloquence and is then dishonored, can he still bow for the Favor with the Eloquence effect?

Eloquence says, 'Permanently give a target Courtier Personality the ability "Political Limited: Bow this card to gain the Imperial Favor. This counts as a lobbying attempt."'

'"This counts as a lobbying attempt" means an action counts against the number of lobbying attempts you can make in one turn, and may be responded to with Reactions to lobbying, but does not require you to have the single highest Family Honor and does not require that you bow an additional Personality with more than 0 Personal Honor to perform it. [JA, 1 December 2003]' (Accumulated Rulings, "Imperial Favor")

That looks like all the questions for Sunday. If I missed your question, please repost it with a clear subject line containing the flag [RULES] somewhere therein. I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.