Rules for 8 June 2004

Your Rules for Tuesday, June 8, 2004

Rules Question

Let's say I have a Blade of Fury on a samurai. He loses to a For the Empire. The samurai has 2 personal honor. I also have a Shrine to Jurojin in play unbowed.

On page 87 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook, it states that if a card is destroyed or removed from the game, everything attached to it at that time will suffer the same fate. That means the destruction with be simultaneous.

Blade of Fury says, "This Personality may not be restored to Honor while Blade of Fury is attached. Blade of Fury may not be moved. After this, Personality is destroyed while in a battle or duel, his controller draws a card and gains 2 Honor."

Shrine of Jurojin says, "Bow Shrine to Jurojin before a bowed or unbowed Personality dies dishonorably to restore that Personality to honor first. If the Personality is yours, gain 2 Honor."

Jurojin happens BEFORE the destruction of any cards. Its re-honoring effect fails due to Blade of Fury. You gain 2 Honor, though. You'd normally restore your Personality to honor instead, but you can't do that due to the Blade so the whole mechanism fails. The honor gain happens normally.

Then the Personality and his attached cards are destroyed. You lose 2 Honor from your Personality dying Dishonorably.

After that, the effect from Blade of Fury triggers. You gain 2 Honor and draw a card. Your Personality wasn't involved in that gain (not targeted or anything) so the gain happens normally.

Feign Death

If a Personality dies due to having 0 Chi, but honorably, and Feign Death is played on it, I know it will die again immediately (assuming its Chi is still 0 after removing any items/tokens, of course); but is there "time" for the Personality to be dishonored while in play, or is it dishonored after dying again?

Good point. They are separate effects that happens one at a time. After returning to play, the Personality would immediately be destroyed again, honorable. He would then be Dishonored while in the Discard Pile.

Keen Eye question...

Can Keen Eye cancel a Dismissed or a Time is not Right ?

You can definitely stop Dismissed. The challenge is issued, and then the Dismissed is played to Negate it, so you're in the timing window provided for by Keen Eye (during a challenge or duel).

You won't have much luck with The Time is Not Right, however. Typically, the Limited Action in question will require targets to be chosen during the targeting step (Iaijutsu Challenge, Iaijutsu Lesson, For the Empire, etc.) The Targeting Step is well before you being to produce any effects, including a challenge or duel effect.

Book and keeper of air.

Keeper of Air:

1. Do you have to discard any Rings to get the Ring of Air? This ability is down as a trait, and it seems unspecific to me as to whether or not the removal of the rings to their owners hands is a cost of the effect.

It is definitely a cost. I do not believe you need to have any Rings in play to fulfill that cost, however.

2. Does the Range 3 attack bow the Keeper? it does not say it doesn't bow him, so I assume yes, but it doesn't say to bow him either.

The Glossary says that a Ranged X Attack is: "an attack for which you bow a card with a Ranged Attack to ..."

Unless I hear otherwise, it bows him.

I don't see anywhere else in the Diamond Edition Rulebook where it says that Ranged Attacks bow as a cost by default, though. It seems like a hold-over from older rules. Maybe it'll be phased out completely in the next rulebook?

Book of air:

1. The "permanent" personality does not go away at any time? (unless destroyed of course)

The permanent is really just a reminder that he is not removed from play at the end of the turn when normal effects expire. Creating cards is always a permanent and instantaneous effect, as per the Accumulated Rulings, "Effects."

2. This does not count as assigment or movement??? Can you create a personality in an Ambush where the attacker and defender are already present?

It is neither assigning nor moving. You can create it in the middle of an Ambush.

Daisetsu/Satoe and cancelled actions

Looking at the text on Satoe I noticed that her reaction was triggered by someone "bowing to cast a kiho".

So this brings me to an interesting question on Flee the Darkness (or other action cancellation).

If the question is "Why did you bow?" the answer is "To cast a Kiho" even if the Kiho was canceled.

A few questions

1 - Can Ikoma Sume use his ability if he's present in a winning battle resolution and is about to return home bowed ?

Yes. The battle is first resolved. Then you send people home. (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 84)

2 - Can Kuon xp 3 use his ability if there is no opposing army ?

No. No one is opposing him.

3 - I bow a personality with the ruby of Iuchiban, then I kill her and my opponent plays Feign Death to bring her back. Is she still affected by the Ruby ?

Yes she is. Moving in and out of play doesn't change the duration of the Ruby's effect in any way.

4 - Hiruma Tsukiko is defending in a battle and she's killed during that battle (ranged attack, duel...). Can I use Kisada's Shrine to bring her back, knowing that "while killed" she's no longer defending in a battle and thus does not have the yu trait ?

Trick question.

She permanently gained Yu 0 before she got her first Yu +2 bonus.

5 - Does a personality have to be unbowed to cast a kiho like Prayers and Blessings ?

"Kiho can be cast by bowed Personalities if the kiho or Personality does not require bowing (e.g., Togashi Satsu, Experienced). [JA, 15 September 2003]" (Accumulate Rulings, "Kiho")

6 - How does Seek the Path work with cards like Superior Strategist, Refuge of the Three Sisters... ?

Jeff answered a question about this a while back. I'm surprised Seek the Path doesn't have an entry in the Accumulated Rulings because of it.

Anyway, here was what Jeff has to say:

'"Target one of your unbowed Shugenja or Monks before a player searches his or her Fate deck for a card to force that player to draw the top card of his or her Fate deck instead."

He draws his top card instead of searching his entire deck and taking a card of his choice. Only the search-and-take effect is altered -- if whatever is making him search also does other things, those still happen.

As a specific example, if my opponent bows Grove of the Five Masters to get a kiho, and I play Seek the Path, does he simply get the top card and do nothing more, or does the rest of the Grove effect continue? (i.e. does he have to show it to me, discard a card to keep it if its a kiho, and discard it otherwise?)

He must still show it to you, put it in his hand, and then discard a card. He gets to keep it even if it's not a Kiho.

What about cases where the card is supposed to be immediately played, such as Matsu Watako?

He must try to do the same thing with it as instructed by the original effect. If he cannot, he must discard it.

Finally, does searching a subsection of your deck count as a trigger for searching your deck? (e.g. Naseru's Strength, Togashi Shozo)

No.'

Anything Jeff didn't cover there that I need to have cleared up?

That should cover all the Rules Questions for 8 June 2004. If I missed your question, please repost it with a clear subject line including the flag [RULES].