Rules for 10 May 2004

Your Rules for Monday, May 10, 2004

Fan of Command vs Weight of the Heavans

I have the fan of command attached to a person, which says, this personality gains tactician while the fan of command is attached. the other plays wieght of heavans on the fan,

[MARTY] He needs to play Weight of the Heavens against the Personality with the fan, not the fan itself. Weight of the Heavens won't do anything if you target the Fan since it does not have any traits it could remove.

to remove the tactician trait, can this happen, or can he remove it from the personality? will tactician just come back or will the fan be unable to give tactician back. the ability on the fan is not an action, just says it.

[MARTY] You need to use Weight of the Heavens on the Personality. The effect of Weight of the Heavens lasts until the end of the turn, because it has no specified duration.

Then you'll have two on-going effects applied to the Personality in the following order (at least until the effect of Weight of the Heavens expires at the end of the turn).

Fan of Command - "Gain the Tactician Trait"

Weight of the Heaven's - "Lose the Tactician Trait"

The final result is that the Personality no longer has the Tactician Trait.

When the turn ends, the effect of Weight of the Heavens will be gone, and the only effect left on the Personality will be "Gain the Tactician Trait."

Ikm'atch-tek question.

Can I use his battle action to give people 0 force bonusses when I have no followers in my discard pile? If you need a reason why: Ring of Water, not passing, Heart of a Hero.

[MARTY] On the one hand, you have the definition of a targeted action, which would definitely mean that Ikm targets the Follower in the discard pile.

On the other hand, you have page 73 in the Diamond Edition Rulebook that says you may not target cards that are not in play.

However, looking at Feign Death and Kisada's Shrine and how Zen and Jeff have ruled in relation to them and Wedge, I think it is safe to say that Page 73 only forbids targeting cards that are not in play up until the point at which the card specifically tells you to choose cards that are not in play.

At that point, the First Cardinal Rule wins.

Based on this the rule on Page 73 is actually there to prevent you from targeting things which are not "in play" unless the Action or Effect in question explicitly contradicts that rule. For example, you can't play "Careful Planning" on a Personality in your Discard Pile.

This does not override the general definition of Targeted Actions on page 72. If an effect that would be targeted forces you to choose something in that is not in play, you can target something that is not in play. The card breaks the rule.

Sometimes you must choose between more than one Ratling Follower in your discard pile for the one to remove from the game. Because of this, the Action targets not only your Ratling Personality receiving a bonus, but also the Follower you will remove from the game.

If you don't have a Follower in your Discard Pile to target, then it is illegal to play Imk'atch-tek's Action because you lack one of its targets.

L5r-ccg Digest, Vol 11, Issue 21

So, following from this ruling, can I:

a) bow a Dipl.App. on a bowed Courtier to play Rhetoric (or any other PA the Courtier could perform),

[MARTY] Yes, so long as it is a PA the Courtier could perform.

Storm Heart won't cut it because your bowed Personalities can not perform actions that issue challenges. Nor could a bowed Shugenja-Courtier cast a Spell's Political Action like Rise from the Ashes. (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 54, "Bowing")

Also, your bowed Courtier is still a bowed card and you are bound by all the normal rules about bowed cards and strongholds. You can't use abilities on the bowed card / stronghold unless it unbows them or has an explicit exemption.

All Diplomatic Apprentice does is give you an alternative way to pay the cost of bowing the Courtier Personality.

b) bow the DA on a bowed Courtier to use the Underhand of the Emperor's ability?

That will work just fine. Declare that your Courtier is going to perform the Action, then bow your Apprentice to pay the cost for him.

(no subject)

Can I use moment of brilliance on a personality with the tactician trait due to Kenson Gakka's ability?

[MARTY] You can use Moment of Brilliance. Kenson Gakka's effect on that Personality will then expire, since it is contingent on the Personality not having the Tactician Trait from anywhere other than Kenson Gakka itself.

Because Kenson Gakka has a trait with an on-going effect, it constantly checks to see if the conditions for applying its ability are still true. When it is no longer true (Personality has less than 3 Chi, not Samurai, not Lion, not yours, does not lack Tactician otherwise, or is not in an army) then its effect on the Personality expires.

Elemental Traits and Keywords

1. Is Water Dragon a Water Shugenja for the purposes of Summon Water Kami? Or does he have to have "Water Shugenja" printed in his traits box?

[MARTY] It has the Shugenja trait and is a Water card by the Keyword Rule. That makes it a Water Shugenja.

2. Is he considered an elemental shugenja if he has the Water Keyword?

[MARTY] Elemental has no special meaning in the game. It is just a general trait that you only get for having the word "elemental" among your traits. You don't get it just because you have "air" / "earth" / "fire" / "water" / "void" in your traits. I must be explicit.

OK, that looks like everything for Monday, May 10, 2004 that wasn't handled in-thread. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] in the subject line and I'll get back to you at my first opportunity.