Rules for 16 and 17 April 2004

Alright, we'll be doing a double-feature today. This will be the Rules for Friday, April 16 and Saturday, April 17, 2004.

Also, I'm going to start answering questions about Hidden City starting today, since I have the Rules Sheet and cards to refer to. There may be a disproportionate number forwarded to Jeff, however, in case of any designer-intent issues that may arrise from a new set. That said:

I'm not fielding anything in the Digest about the Chiyeko / Brutal Confrontation combo. I consulted with Jeff at the Kotei and he's going to be getting some more feedback from Design before handled the matter himself.

Proposal of Peace

does Proposal of Peace prevent the honor gains from A Wish Granted and Shrine of Humility?

I'm going to forward this to Jeff, since I couldn't find a firm precedent and it might effect the play strength of cards with similar wordings in the future. I can tell you for certain that traits on Personalities that says, "Gain X Honor when this personality enters play" will be negated by Proposal of Peace.

But triggered effects on other cards, and extra effects on cards that bring the Personality into play? I don't have anything truly solid to go on.

It really depends on how Design wanted to define "for bringing a Personality into play." I'm not Design, so I can't decide that.

Kouken Blade

Can you bow a follower Shugenja to play this item?

Dwight.

Kouken Blade says, "You must bow one of your Shugenja as an additional cost of playing this card."

It does not specify "Personality" so anything you control with the Shugenja Trait will qualify. Same goes for Morning Glory Castle's ability, as a matter of fact. I was bowing Minor Shugenja to bring Shiba Danjuro and Shiba Tsukimi all Kotei long.

Bayushi Kamnan

Can you pay 2 gold, 4 times to get rid of all 4? Or is that 2 for one a hard cap?

It is as hard a cap as only destroying One Unit as the cost of To Do What We Must to destroy One Unit as an effect.

When you play an ability, you only get to pay the cost and generate the effect once per play of the ability, unless it explicitly states otherwise.

<jimandandrealetters@h...>

Simple Formation question

Do the personalities that are forming the Formation have to be unbowed?

Nothing I can find on the rules sheet indicated they need to be unbowed. I would say unless the card explicitly specifies unbowed Personalities.

duel of force question again

does test of might, rage, and brutal confrontation target the PERSONALITY Or the unit

The duel is between two Personalities, not their units. Each card specifically deals with Personalities, not units.

Bayushi Kaman xp + Emerald Armour [ Rules ]

Good Day,

Bayushi Kaman xp loses 2 chi permanently to perform his action. The Emerald Armour states a personalities chi can not be below one.

a) Can Bayushi Kaman wearing the emerald armour use his ability as often as he likes .. earning himself a greater and greater ( lesser and lesser ?? ) negative chi ... but not dying ...

or

b) He can use it with the armour, but only to bring himself to 0 , and the armour keeps him alive.

I talked with Jeff over the weekend. Losing 2 Chi is a Cost of Kamnan's ability. That's not the same as if an effect gives him -2 Chi. If a minimum like that of Emerald Armor or the Rulebook floor of 0 Chi would prevent his total from dropping by 2 full points, then the cost isn't paid.

Rules for 13/4/04

Could it be that moving (not in the L5R sense, but in a real world, physical sense) the card to the discard pile is an effect of destruction? I realize that it might not be your call to make, but I think it's a valid question.

Talked to Jeff about it at the Kotei for confirmation. Destruction IS the effect of transferring a card from "in play" to "discard pile."

It is referred to as "destroy" because they wanted to give cards a chance to key off of going to the Discard Pile from In Play distinctly from going to the Discard Pile from say, your Hand.

question about far and wide...

Yeah, Mitch. Far and Wide doesn't really work with the new rules set for Diamond Edition.

Political interference again!

Player B controls untapped: Kyuden Ikoma and 1 Copper Mine. He have 8 Honor.

So, Player B taps the stronghold and the Coppermine to play Akodo Kurako ( HR:8 / GC:9 ) without honor gain.

So PLAYER A play political interference. Question:

If Player B choose loss honor, the honor automatically decrease to 6 and Kurako cant be played?

"A Personality's honor requirement must be met before, during, and after paying costs. [Partial Reversal]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Honor Requirements")

The Honor Loss from Political Interference happens when paying costs. Therefore, having 6 Honor will not meet Kurako's Honor Requirement after paying costs, and she will not enter play.

Bone of Tattered Ear Tribe + Ratling Bushi (plus others)

If I am playing BofTET, and get +1f/+1c PACK token for each Ratling Follower I control, and then I play Ratling Bushi, which gains +1F for each Ratling Pack in this unit, does each pack token add to the +1F?

The game I played in said no, they don't count. When I looked in the deck, it said that a follower token is a card, but nothing about if a Pack token is the same thing as "ratling pack".

Bone of the Tattered Ear Tribe says, "When Bone of the Tattered Ear Tribe enters play, it gains a +1F/+1C Pack token for each Ratling Follower you control."

Those are "Pack tokens" not "Ratling Pack tokens." They don't have the "Ratling" keyword.

Ratling Bushi says, "Ratling Bushi gains +1F for each Ratling Pack in this unit."

"Pack tokens" are not the same as "Ratling Packs."

Next Question: Utaku Qsi-Tsing: As a political limited, once per turn, she can attach a +1F/+1C Weapon Item token to one of your personalities. Iuchi Katsumi can as a battle action "destroy an item attached to her to move a unit from one battle to another". Are the weapon item tokens from Utaku considered Items with regards to Iuchi's ability?

They are Item tokens. They count as Items, but not as cards. Katsumi only looks for Items, not specifically Item Cards, so the tokens will suffice.

Was it decided whether or not a Stronghold is a card? We were "joking" about if it was a card, then Ratling Conjurer would give it +1 force, which would make the province strength 14.

Well, Strongholds were originally printed individually on the back of starter boxes of L5R, about 1/2 the length of the current Diamond Edition Starter Decks. That's why players still often refer to their Strongholds as a "box" and Personalities that can be brought into play by just the stronghold as "boxable."

As for the Conjurer, even if Strongholds were cards, Force is not the same as Province Strength, so a Force boost would not increase a Province's Strength.

Discrepancy on rulings for Chi threshholds?

Why is it that a shugenja can use Kuro's Fire to produce an infinite strength RA, just so long as it is known that a trait will lower the strength of the RA down to something legal?

Because Kuro's Fire only cares about the Strength of the Ranged Attack when it gets produced. The shugenja does not "produce an infinite strength RA." It produces the adjusted strength of Ranged Attack. Kuro's Fire takes outside modifiers into account (like targeting Xushen or having Higher Ground in play).

Example: a 2/3 shuggie can produce a ranged 6 attack targetting Shinjo Xushen xp since he lowers RAs by 2.

No. The Shugenja never produces a ranged 6 attack. When Kuro's Fire produces the RA, it is Ranged 4. You announce it as ranged 6. It comes out as ranged 4.

Especially since Chuda Agent/Bayushi Kamnan XP cannot give themselves -2C if they have 1 chi. If the perp doesn't survive the cost, and that cancels the cost being paid, I can see that.

Not so much cancels the cost. The cost isn't paid. The Chi stat didn't go down a full two points in the end. A stat-floor was imposed on it. The net result wasn't sufficient to pay the cost.

But what about the Emerald Armor? A perp with -x chi but the emerald armor attached, certainly 'has' chi to spare, since it is known that they won't drop down to death after paying the cost.

Costs and effects are distinct animals in terms of dealing with this. When an effect pushes a stat below a floor, you impose the floor on the stat for determining its current value, and move on with the game. When a cost requires you to drop a stat to pay a cost, and a floor keeps your final stat total from dropping by the require amount, you haven't paid the cost.

OK. That's everything for this pass. See you on Monday.