Rules for 13 April 2004

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Until them, enjoy your Rules for Tuesday, April 13, 2004

Rising Shadows

Suppose that my opponent is attacking one of my provinces with an Akodo Maiko and a Matsu Aoiko. I assign no personalities to defend, but I have a Shukumei in my home. Can I play Rising Shadows and bow Shukumei in order to bow Maiko?

Rising Shadows says, "Maho Open: Bow a Bloodspeaker card controlled by any player to bow a Personality controlled by any player. Lose 2 Honor if the Bloodspeaker is yours."

No, you can not play Rising Shadows in this case. You do not satisfy the Rule of Presence (DE rulebook, pages 80-81), and Rising Shadows does not explicitly exempt you from that requirement like say, Refugees and In Search of the Future do.

Now suppose that I'm in the same situation as described above, only now I've assigned a Goblin Wizard to defend the province. Can I play Rising Shadows and bow Shukumei in order to bow Maiko?

Yes. You have satisfied Presence by having Goblin Wizard in the battle. You satisfy Relevance by choosing Maiko (a card at the battle) as a target.

Now suppose that my opponent is attacking one of my provinces with a lone Akodo Ieshige, and I assign a Migawari to defend. Because I want to win the battle as opposed to just tying it, can I play Rising Shadows and target Ieshige twice with it (in effect, bowing Ieshige to bow himself)?

Yes you can. Obviously, the second bowing won't do anything noticeable.

Stuff while I was gone... and it's a lot.

First... Feign Death vs. Hakai. Feign death is triggered by a peep dying, Hakai is triggered by a card entering the discard pile. Since cards are destroyed before they go to the discard pile, Feign should always win.

They are effectively the same trigger. The rulebook defines destruction / dying as a process which consists of moving the card from in-play to the discard pile. that's just like how "bowing" consists of turning a card sideways.

Also, note that both Hakai and Feign Death use the word "after" for their timing. By the time it is "after" someone dies, it is normally also after they have hit the discard pile.

However, problems may arise from Feign's wording, as it's results don't immediately take effect, much like the Crane duelling prodigy.

Um, not really. It works like this.

Someone dies and thusly winds up in the Discard Pile by definition. You play Feign Death. Feign Death has to either be Canceled or Resolve its Effects before the opportunity to play a Reaction to the same trigger passes to the left.

The trigger occurs, I use my reaction, "wait", and then the reaction takes effect.

You're only waiting to Reactions to Feign Death announcing, targeting, paying for, playing Feign Death. You don't have to wait for any more Reactions to that Personality dying.

So my guy dies, I play Feign, he goes to the discard, my opponent uses Hakai, and then both have effects to resolve... which I leave to Jeff & Marty.

It is more like this:

1 - Your guy dies, which entails landing in the Discard Pile.

2 - The player to the left of the player who killed your guy gets first chance to play Reactions. If the Rulebook killed your personality, the player to the left of the player whose turn it is gets first crack at it.

Let's assume you get first chance to act.

3 - You play Feign Death. All players pass on playing Reactions to Feign Death. Feign Death resolves, putting your Personality into play.

4 - Opportunities to React to your Personality dying / landing in the Discard Pile passes to the left.

5 - The player on your left uses Hakai. No one Reacts to Hakai. Hakai removes your Personality from the game.

It doesn't matter than your Personality is no longer in the Discard Pile. All Hakai cares is that he went there and caused the trigger. Hakai removes the card from the game.

6 - Listen to your opponent yak the rest of the night about how "There's no coming back, baby!" and nothing else.

Does Feign bring the peep into play, and then Hakai remove him from the game, or vise versa,

As noted above, Hakai will erase you, even if you get back into play.

Feign Death will not work, after Hakai resolves, however. Feign Death targets the Personality (because sometimes there is more than one Personality to choose from at the same time - like Battle Resolution) and once Hakai has resolved, that Personality card is Removed From the Game, so Feign Death (played in the game) can't target that card (removed from the game).

one more for good luck...

Eleventh (I think). For reactions that don't state a before, when, or after time frame, should we assume it's a when card?

I'd go with that. Neither before nor after. When.

Meanwhile, I'll attempt to prevent cards with such wording from ever seeing print. ;-)

Kenshinzen + Contested Holding

- If I play a Constested with a personality with kenshizen attached, must the opposing player accept the duel with some guy or not?

Contested Holding says that your Personality issues a challenge to a player, and then outlines what that player may do to accept. Kenshinzen says that challenges from your Personality can not be refused.

If the controller of the targeted holding has any eligible Personalities, he must choose one to accept.

Rules Questions (mostly SH)

1) How does Stone Breaker interact with Temple of the Ninth Kami. If use the action on T9K and only have Stone Breaker in play, must they become dishonored? By accumulated rulings, wouldn't they have to become dishonored since it is known in advance that the option will fail?

Looks that way to me.

2) Fushin + Daigotsu Toru

Can't do that one. Fushin and Toru are from Hidden City and Hidden City rulings are Jeff's exclusive domain for at least a few more days.

3.) Combining consecutive ranged attacks. From the rulebook page 90, "...the cards must all be able to make a ranged attack at that time..." I'm curious to how this interacts Yumi of Fire and/or multiple Goblin Slingers. If I have 2 Goblin Slingers attached to a personality can I bow both to produce 2 consecutive ranged 4 attacks targeting cards in the same unit?

I think it might be best to kick this one up to Jeff to see what his intent was. Combined Ranged attacks is written into the Rulebook almost exclusively under the idea of individual Ranged Attack actions, not separate and consecutive Ranged Attack effects.

Forwarded to Jeff

4.) Refugees and Right Hand of the Emperor

Since the effects are seperate, and I use the Right hand's ability to negate the send home, do I also have the option to place a 1F follower token on the target personality? The only effects I've negated is the send home/bowing, not the secondary effect of placing a 1F token. Or, would "sending home bowed" be a cost to having that effect?

Yes, you may buy a 1F Follower token.

5.) When is Fireworks / Temple of Ages legal?

I don't even have copies of those cards yet. :*(

If they were officially released before or with Hidden City, then idea assume they become legal with Hidden City.

Zen's always on top of that sort of thing. He or Jeff would be better able to help you with this question.

OK, that looks like everything that isn't Hidden City related or addressed in the previous rules digest. If I missed your question, please repost it with the flag [RULES] in the subject line and I'll get back to you at the first opportunity.

Hope to meet many of you at the Kotei this weekend!