post for 9 December 2002

Rules Question: Defensive Duty

Also, as a follow up, do "Entering Play" effects happen, such as Losing Honor, or Discard abilities, or even Gaining honor from a personality of your own clan?

Defensive Duty does not bring the Personality into play, so no entering-play effects happen. [card text]

Plain of Fast Troubles DOES bring the card into play, so effects do happen. [card text] However, all costs are waived, so you need to read cards closely to check whether their entering-play effects are truly effects or whether they're costs. You do not gain honor for bringing aligned Personalities into play because that only occurs when you pay full price during the Dynasty Phase.

post for 6 December 2002

but can you react to those fears with things like face of fear?

Kyofu's action does not have the restrictions against Reactions that Blackened Sky does, so they're legal.

Are you really sure about this?

Yes.

The Blackened Sky ruling predates the GE MRP.

The Blackened Sky ruling is based on the old wording, which included this line: "All of these action must be Ranged Attacks -- you may not perform actions other than those that produce Ranged Attacks."

Kyofu doesn't have anything like that either.

Tattoo defination

Can anyone please tell me what the defination of Tattoed is and how tattoos are treated in game play (ie some seem very similar to spell effects or other innate abilities).

"Tattooed" is a trait that has no special rules. There are a number of cards that interact with it, specifically several "Tattoo" cards that can only be played on Personalities with the "Tattooed" trait and that give that Personality some permanent extra ability or trait.

I'm asking this as I work on an old brotherhood open deck and wonder how I'm going to get the Ring of Air in play without using insane numbers of kihos.

He'll still have to use kihos, spells, and/or shugenja. Tattoos are not spell effects. (However, if he has a Tattooed shugenja and he gives her a Tattoo that grants her an ability, that ability will be an "innate ability", and using it will count towards playing the Ring.)

Hey, Jeff! / Hey, Jeff!

One Unravelling can cancel another, right?

And bowing the shugenja is a cost of the spell, so that wouldn't be refunded if the spell is canceled, so you wouldn't have an infinite battle of Unravelling if there are two copies of the spell on the table, right?

...unless, of course, Celestial Alignment just went off. Then you could have an infinite Unravelling battle.

So what happens if Celestial Alignment goes off and then I try to cast Fury of Osano Wo in a battle while both my opponent and I each have another unbowed Shugenja with an attached Unravelling (not necessarily at that battle, but they can be if it makes the question easier)? You can only take a single reaction per copy of a card, so we could each only use Unravelling once, but... whenever either of us uses Unravelling, it canceles the other Unravelling, so that means that it never happened (other than the fact that costs are not refunded) and the other can react with their own Unravelling.

Hmm?

Cast Fury of Osano-Wo.

React with Unravelling A against Fury of Osano-Wo.

React with Unravelling B against Unravelling A.

Does anyone wish to react to Unravelling B? No? Unravelling B occurs, cancelling Unravelling A. Unravelling A is now not considered to have been used.

React with Unravelling A against...Unravelling B?

Isn't Unravelling B already done? Why is Unravelling B hanging around, waiting to be reacted to again, when it already had its effect?

Wow. Good job! It looks like I don't have to make any kind of stalling judgement at all. The situation, though compicated, is not infinite and requires no special rulings to determine. I hereby RESCIND what I said before.

post for 6 December 2002

<< Yes, you still lose for using a G&F that you don't have anywhere in your deck or face-down Provinces even if it is not discovered immediately. The loss is not being delayed, either -- it happened at the time you used the illegal action.

Jeff, Follow up. Currently the rule book says this:

A player loses and is removed from the game along with all cards he or she owns if all of his or her Provinces are destroyed OR if he or she ever has under -19 Family Honor. Any ongoing effects the player's cards created continue unchanged. Does this now apply for people who lose by the Gifts and Favors error.

Yes. All eliminations have the same result.

In a multiplayer game is ongoing effects he creates after he lost still considered ongoing? Were those effects legal if they are done before he is discovered to have lost?

No and no. Moral: if it's that important, find out right away whether the use was legal.

Are all actions in a two player game that are performed after the loss that has not been discovered immediatly, but before the players next turn later, legal or count for victory conditions?

No.

What about in a multiplayer game.

Same answer.

Destruction and Kisada's Shrine

Kisada's Shrine [text]: Reaction: Bow Kisada's Shrine after one of your Samurai Personalities with the Yu trait is destroyed to return that Personality to play, bowed, in your home.

Since KS is a reaction to the destruction of the personality, does this pre-empt the Personality and all his attached cards going to their respective discard piles since KS does not stipulate returning the Personality from your discard pile as some other effects I believe do.

It is returning it to play from your discard pile. Personalities go there when destroyed [rulebook], and Kisada's Shrine is used "after" the Personality is destroyed to "return that Personality to play". [card text]

Also, would any effects triggered by entering play be triggered again?

Yes.

Stand against the waves and Snake Tattoo

Ok, Stand against the waves targets personalities without followers, as has already been ruled. What happens if one of said personalities has a Snake Tattoo? By my reading, it targets the guy with the Snake Tattoo, who then moves to a different province. Since he is no longer an opposing Personality, he's no longer a legal target for Stand, and therefore Stand is cancelled, correct?

The Snake Tattoo's Reaction can only be used "after AN OPPONENT targets this Personality with an action while he or she is in an army." [card text] Stand Against the Waves forces either the Attacker or the Defender to target and bow cards in his or her own army. So, the only time the Snake Reaction is legal is if your Tattooed Personality is in that player's army AND that player is your opponent for this battle -- which, barring cards like Ninube Ogoku in Open play, never happens.

Questions, questions

I had some questions about the following cards and how they interact:

Peasant revolt

Kakita Atoshi

Chit'tith

Matsu Hyun

You feel it coming don't you? Can I unbow peeps with chit'tith or Hyun if a revolt resolved or when kept hold with atoshi?

No. Effects that prevent cards from straightening are more powerful than effects that straighten cards.

rullings scorpians and street to street

first one is we are in a battle i am playing scorpian defending and i get first action i play "street to street" and all followers are removed the attacker passes on his action and so i start too bow bow his whole army at the end of the battle i have 4 force the attack has 0 force and i win the battle now do i get 2 honor for the guys i killed and the followers because they have no one too attach too or do they just get discarded

Wow. That's one long sentence.

Let's check what the card says: "When this Battle Action Segment ends or this Terrain is destroyed, each Follower's controller must attach the Follower to one of his or her Personalities in this battle. Destroy any Followers that any player cannot legally attach."

Point #1: the re-attaching is part of an action, since Street to Street says to re-attach them and it's a Battle action. Players are not allowed to target their own bowed Personalities with their own actions. [rulebook] So, the player who played Street to Street can put his Followers back onto his unbowed Personalities only. No one else is hindered by this rule, though! Even if their entire army is bowed, they can still re-attach their Followers. It won't matter much towards winning -- their total army Force will still probably be 0 -- but they can (and, therefore, must) do it.

Point #2: Followers are re-attached "when this Battle Action Segment ends or this Terrain is destroyed". One of those will happen, guaranteed, before the final resolution of the battle and the honor gain for the winning side is determined. No one can choose to discard Followers that they are able to re-attach, or to delay the re- attaching until after honor is calculated.

In your example, you will likely gain full honor for all of your opponent's Followers.

second one is this i need a clarifacation on the event "right too rule" does the wording mean i can lose as much honor as i want unless the oponet drestroyes his left most provence or am i reading it wrong thanks

A player scores a Military Victory by being the only one left in the game. [GE p. 20 & 73] Why the other players were eliminated does not matter. If you go to -20 Family Honor or below, you are eliminated, and in a two-player game, your opponent scores a Military Victory.

Show of good faith question

When a player uses show of good faith and then kills or destorys the personality with a card effect.

Does that personality go to it's new controllers graveyard?

Yes. [GE p. 60]

If so will it stay there or at the appropriate time for the end of show of good faith, go bacck to it's old controller graveyard?

"If someone else owns it, the card does NOT change piles when the change-of-control effect would normally wear off." [archive, under "Death and Destruction"]

Rules question on an old card [Doom of the Alliance]

I looked through the rulings and couldn't find anything about it, but perhaps I wasn't thorough. We all know that Yoritomo's Alliance and Mantis Clan are interchangable and count as each other, right?

Yes, although just like any other rule, card text can override it.

Well, how does Doom of the Alliance affect Mantis or YA strongholds?

Doom of the Alliance (U4 Event [HE6] SJ): Until the end of the game, Yoritomo's Alliance players must pay full cost for Personalities with the Yoritomo's alliance trait, and only Personalities with the 'Mantis Clan' as a printed trait are considered part of their clan.

That would be card text overriding the rulebook. Once this Event resolves:

1. Personalities without the "Mantis Clan" trait are not aligned to you.

2. You may not choose to lower the Gold cost of Personalities with the "Yoritomo's Alliance" trait by 2 when you buy them during the Dynasty Phase.

Notice that the second impact nearly never matters -- if they don't say "Mantis Clan", you can't buy them for cheap anyway, since they're not aligned. Only if you find yourself with a Personality with both the "Mantis Clan" and "Yoritomo's Alliance" traits will this impact you in any way.

Honorable seppuku question

Situation: I cast The Wolf's Proposal on Mirumuto Rosanjin. I then cast Secrets on the Wind on him. Then I play Honorable Seppuku. How much honor do I gain?

His Personal Honor is 5. You'd gain 5. [GE p. 32]

Gifts & Favors timing ruling {JEFF PLEASE}

This is a question for the official rules people please.

It has been said that the only way you can get screwed by Gifts & Favors on the first turn is if the card refills after an Event or Region is your G&F. That statement goes against the rulebook.

If you discard cards from you provinces during your Dynasty phase (which you are sure to do if you have no gold) they get refilled before the End phase, which is where G&F goes off. This makes the likelihood of your G&F getting dumped into a province far greater.

So, do you go by the rulebook or the intent of the card?

Rulebook.

Family Names

I've been thinking about Family Tactics, and I've got a few questions.

Toturi Miyako makes "Toturi" a family name, so is Toturi (nonexp, exp1, etc) a member of the Toturi family?

Yes. [GE p. 35]

What about Akodo Toturi (inexp)?

He's an Akodo family member only.

If Toturi gets the bonus, what about Kitsune? What about Lady Kitsune? What about personalities with Kitsune as a trait, such as Soshi Kiyo exp?

"Kitsune" is a family name, so a Personality titled just "Kitsune" is a member. "Lady Kitsune" is not, nor are cards with the "Kitsune" trait.

Does Nikushimi get the bonus from Family Tactics if I name Tsuno?

No. Families work by card titles only.