post for 29 March 2002

Plans within Plans/Shiro Matsu question (rules Q)

You can't play Plans within Plans during battle, this is true. However, you don't necessarily have to...

PwP reads: "Play this card during your opponent's Action Phase. At your next opportunity to play an Open action, you may instead play a Limited action. Effects end during the appropriate phase this turn."

Consider the following sequence of events:

It is your opponent's turn.

- As an Open action, you play Plans within Plans. - Fearing the possibility of nasty Limited actions, your opponent plays Jaws of Defeat on his next action, ending the Action phase (which is what Jaws of Defeat does.)

The Action Phase is now over... but you haven't had an opportunity yet to take an Open action, so Plans within Plans has yet to resolve*.

Your opponent, unaware that the game has crossed over into the Twilight Zone, foolishly decides to attack you. He assigns attackers, you assign defenders. He resolves a battle, and, as Defender, you take the first action.

It is now your "next opportunity to play an Open action". So, according to PwP, you may play a Limited action instead.

The question then becomes (assuming this is all legal; see the * below): can you use the stronghold ability and declare an attack (i.e. does it satisfy the rules of presence and relevance?) And if so, what happens then? And what about Ambush, which does almost the same thing?

I'm going to rule that Limited actions are also bound by the Rules of Presence and Relevance, on the basis that Reactions ought to be the only exception. Thus, neither Ambush nor Shiryo Matsu's action are legal during battle, even if you do somehow

Needless to say, this is NOT going to go into the rulebook, since any mention in there of Limited actions during a battle is going to cause far too much confusion. Zen, could you ensure it's added to the archives, please?

Where is Design going? (Was Re: [L5R-CCG] post for 27 March 2002)

However I look at the Crane (not suprisingly) and the Lion and see a bunch of Courtiers as well. Now the Lion Courtiers/Poets are generaly ok or good cards (Matsu Hyun anyone).

Hyun is not a Courtier. "Poet" is not equivalent. "Poet" just means "Poet".

The Lion have zero Courtiers right now, and they'll only have one once Dark Allies releases.

The Crane Courtiers on the other hand are probably the single worst personalities we have in Gold and we are supposed to be among the best in the setting.

Politically, Crane already have a dominance in court as represented by their ability to use the Favor every turn against most opponents. The occasional presence of Courtiers in every other faction (Crab is scheduled to get one in the set after Dark Allies) is so no one is forced to hire out-of-clan if they wish to play with the increasing number of Courtier-related Political actions.

I also believe that it was said by Ray Lau that design had finalised guidelines for the different factions. Is there any chance that these guidelines could be made public?

None whatsoever.

Terrible Standard of Fu Leng

Rules question: The later version (7G cost) of the Terrible Standard reads "the Standard gains a +1F token for each opposing unit destroyed in the resolution phase of _a_ battle" Does this mean that even if the unit is not at the battle (either it has been sent home, moved, or was never in the battle), that it can gain these force tokens?

If it's not in a battle, there are no cards "opposing" it. It can't get any tokens at all.

Yogo Tjeki

This is just in need of a clairification:

Is the honor loss caused by Yogo Tjeki considered to be unconditional for the purposes of Shadowlands Strongholds?

It is unconditional, for all purposes. "Conditional" means the person it's used against has the option of allowing something else to happen instead.

RA Question

Scenario:

Tsuruchi fires off a Range 4 attack [with or without The Arrow Knows the Way.]

Later, I use Inner Fire to straighten him.

Later still I play The Great Climb and it survives until resolution. Will Tsuruchi be able to shoot off a range 4 again?

Yes.

Could I play The Arrow Knows the Way on his RA again?

No, because he is not bowing to produce the attack. (Normally, The Great Climb lets you bow cards making ranged attacks if you want to, but Inner Fire prohibits it.)

Official Rulings: combined ranged attacks, Dragon Tattoo

a) When two Personalities are combined with Possession (Jeff's favorite spell), do either of the Personalities leave play?

No. (So says Dave. Followups to him. I *reeeeeeally* hate this card.)

b) I have an army at Province A and at Province B, both allied with the attacker. I play False Alliance, now allied with the defender. A unit of mine gets moved to Province B. Am I opposing my own units now? Is the action that moved my unit into Province B cancelled? Will False Alliance switch the units sides in Province B? (Note -- the latter is not described as an effect anywhere on False Alliance.)

Forwarded to the Rules Team.

c) Once a Shosuro Hametsu has been in play, his owner's poison tokens can do a "thing." If any Hametsu has been in play, can anyone else's poison tokens do a "thing", or just Hametsu's owner's?

Extrapolating from the ruling in the archive, I will say anyone's poison tokens can be used for this.

This flows with the Dragon Tattoo removal issue; can traits and rules and abilities and restrictions stick to non-card things in play after the causal agent leaves?

Absolutely. Togashi Yama, from Anvil of Despair, works this way.

] "Limited: Bow to put a Mountain token on one of your Provinces. As a ] battle action, you may send home all units attacking one of your ] Provinces by destroying a number of Mountain tokens at that Province ] equal to the number of attacking units. You may not send home less ] than all of the attackers in this fashion."

Official Rulings: combined ranged attacks, Dragon Tattoo

Just to get an insight, is there a reasoning to go with the ruling or was it merely decided to be too powerful?

It was far more powerful, in an unusual and unpredictable way, than what was originally intended, and we have decided to arrest it now before it gets worse.

Gaijutsu no Shiryo

In the case of the Dragon Tattoo, that is another wording error. The straightening restriction, as worded on the card, comes not from the Fire tokens, but from the ability itself.

Correct.

So, by the wording, the Fire token should confer no abilities or restrictions other than the 1F/1C bonus.

Also correct.

Gaijutsu no Shiryo

What is the logic behind the ruling? It would seem that it is not a ruling but erata to me. In which case why not make MRP/eratta dragon tattoo such that the tokens have all that traits?

That would produce similar (not identical) results and possibly be easier to understand, but it would be a greater change to the card than the current ruling, so I am disinclined to go that route.

Gaijutsu no Shiryo

I understand fixing abusive and environment altering abilities, but I have yet to see the fire token combo get out of hand and warrant an MRP. The Under-Hand, yes, that needed fixing. Finding the Harmony, yep, that too. Dragon Tattoo, .... Why?

Because it was functioning extremely counter to how it was originally intended. Dragon Tattoo, the various Experience levels of Togashi Mitsu... since the beginning of time they've never worked quite right when things got even the slightest bit tricky, and Gaijutsu no Shiryo was only magnifying the problem.

Gaijutsu no Shiryo

Perhaps dragon tattoo should be re-mrped to reflect this change

It should and it will, as soon as it is convenient to do so.

Could we get some sort of non-final text to work with as an errata rather than having the ruling up in the air causing confusion?

Sure.

Everyone else, pay attention to this! This will clear up a lot of your questions. This is not an official MRP, but it does encapsulate the latest ruling exactly.

Limited: Target one of your Personalities with the Tattooed trait and without a Dragon Tattoo. For the rest of the game, the Personality has a Dragon Tattoo and gains the ability "Open: Place one to three +1F/+1C Fire tokens on this Personality. For the rest of the game, this Personality cannot have more than three Fire tokens, cannot straighten by any means if he or she has any Fire tokens, and removes a Fire token instead of straightening during the Straighten Phase if he or she has Fire tokens."