post for 11-12 February 2002

Sacred Tunnels

Sacred Tunnels (U) 0G Reaction: Bow before you reveal a face-down Dynasty card in one of your provinces. If it is a personality, reduce its gold cost by 2, to a minimum of 3. If it is a holding, either discard it or pay 2 gold (your choice). If it is an event, discard it with no effect.

If you flip a personality, is the cost reduction permanent or till end of turn?

End of turn.

If I use the Kaneka wind to change my dynasty cards and the same card pops out again, can I use another Sacred Tunnel to further reduce by another 2G?

No, because Akodo Kaneka doesn't satisfy the Tunnel's trigger. At no time do you turn a face-down Dynasty card in a Province face-up -- you discard a face-up card in a Province and refill it from your deck with a card that's also face-up.

If you flip a holding, does it come into play when you pay the 2 gold?

No. Paying 2 Gold merely keeps it in the Province.

Rules Question

Ok here is the scenario:

My opponent is attacking my province with a moat attached to it. I defend with a 1 force personality and play Three Stone River. None of his personalities have followers attached.

Three Stone River Battle Terrain: Lower to 1 the force of each personality in this battle with no followers. Lower the force of each personality in this battle with followers to the force of his or her highest force follower.

So here is the question, the three stone river would set each personalities force in my scenario to one when the terrain resolves and my understanding of how moat works is that it is a continuous effect so that it would apply after the terrain resolved

Wrong. [AOF rulebook p. 32] Moat applies first, reducing every attacker by 1 as soon as they're assigned. Much later, the terrain sets their Forces directly to 1. That's now their new current Force. You don't apply continuous effects again. You know their Force. It's 1. Three Stone River said so.

(Jeff) Rules Q

Blue Skies immediate terrain Political battle: Actions may not be canceled and challenges may not be refused

Another time when you reveal this card as a focus for a duel, cancel the duel.

With Blue Skies in effect would the cancellation effect of another time be prevented?

No.

Are duels considered to be an extension of the challenge action? Or rather an entirely separate result?

The duel is an effect of the challenge action. (Another Time really shouldn't use the term "cancel", apparently. Chalk it up for eventual rewording.)

While blue skies is in effect can an action still have it's effects "negated, modified, or redirected"?

Yes, yes, yes.

Rules Question

I strongly suspect this is going to be a REVERSAL...

<smells blood>

The answer is b). By their wordings:

Defenders of the Realm is played BEFORE the Province is destroyed. Winds and Fortunes is played WHEN the Province is destroyed. Kharma is played AFTER the Province is destroyed.

They'd have to be played in that order, and if anyone plays Defenders, Winds... and Kharma become unplayable.

I don't have any twisted logic problems with this conclusion, Jeff. At least, I'm not going to bring them up. I do have a very pragmatic problem.

There are definately some wonky rules problems within the wordings of the cards, I agree. But, because each card has a microscopically different trigger, there's a big practical problem here, too. What do you suggest we do? Wait thirty seconds after every STEP of an effect? We're already impatient about Open actions during the Action Phases of others.

It's been true ever since Shadowlands that some Reactions always get played before or after others (thanks, Goshiu). Obviously it's not a really high-profile issue or it would have come up more than once or twice in the last six years. :) I don't really have any recommendations for you other than take things at a steady pace, not only to give everyone a time to react accordingly but to avoid tipping your hand.

Moving Cards

When you move cards between personalitys, do you bow the cards being moved or just the personalitys??

Just the Personalities. [AOF rulebook p. 49]

When you use Matsu Hataki's ability to straighten, do you straighten his whole unit or just him???

Just him. [card text]

More Master of Water stuff

OK, I'm pretty sure this has been asked a couple of times, so I'm not flagging it for the rules guys, but a friend is having trouble wrapping his mind around the sheer pimpdom of Isawa Tomo, so I promised I'd double-check. Can somebody confirm for me?

Player A attacks Player B at Province 1. Player B defends with Tomo/Riake at Province 2. Player A resolves the battle at Province 2 first. Player B bows Tomo/Riake to move Player A's unit from Province 1 to Province 2 to die screaming on Sorrow's Path.

Legal, or not?

Legal. It follows Riake's text ("move a unit"), it satisfies Presence (Player B has a unit in Province 2), and it satisfies Relevance (twice: the action came from a card in Province 2, plus it moved something into Province 2).

rules question : allies and honor

Allied players on the winning side of a battle, do not gain honor for cards destroyed, nor can re-honor dishonored personalities on their armies, but as part of the armies they are indeed "involved" in the honor gain whether or not they are the Attacker or the Defender.

So my question is if an allied unit has a Kolat geisha attached, is the honor gain from the cards destroyed during the resolution phase redirected to the player that put the kolat geisha into play?

Yes.

Scorpion Dishonor / Scorpion Dishonor

defend hour honor

This card is insane. I've won a strict gold tourney, refusing duels left and right, with Defend Your Honor and Hantei Naseru.

Defend your honor does not stop honor loss from refusing duels. You are causing the honor loss by refusing, not your opponent. As such you can not use the Defend your honor as your opponent is not causing the honor loss.

As has been pointed out by several posters by this point: yes it does; no you're not; and yes you can, as he is.

Clear?

Underhand Question?

Do I lose 1 family honor when I look at the other players hand or when I force him to discard a card from his hand?

You lose 1 Honor every time you use the action, regardless of whether you force a discard.

Matsu Hataki exp. + Jade Bow

Hello, I think this is a question to be answered by the rules stuff. If I attach a Jade Bow to Matsu Hataki exp., and I am the defender, can I make a ranged attack, unbow him, make a second ranged attack..., an so on?

Yes.

Three Questions

Q1) Can the Go Master's Battle action be used in a battle where you have no units?

No. It does not satisfy the Rule of Presence.

Q2) Can Uncertainty be played during a battle where you have no units?

No, for the same reason.

Q3) When placing Shadowlands Personality cards under Forgotten Tomb while playing Spawning Ground, do you use the cards' printed force or their force with the +1 bonus from the stronghold for determining when they enter play?

Forgotten Tomb cares about current Force, since it just says "Force". By MRP, the Spawning Ground gives +1F to cards you "own", which means they get the bonus even when they're not in play. Therefore, it will take your goblins and such an extra turn to come out of the Tomb.