Rhetoric and The Shadow's Lair

L5R CCG Rules board, 20 May 2012 to 21 May 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 20 May 2012

Reaction: Before a player gains or loses Honor from an action's effects, bow your performing Courtier: Choose another player. If the Courtier's Chi is higher than or equal to the Honor gain or loss, the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss.

You do not lose Honor from Ninja and Fate cards you own.

So the question is this:

Can I play Rhetoric's reaction when playing out of the Shadow's Lair as it seems that Rhetoric checks BEFORE I lose honor. It doesn't know that I do not, right?

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 21 May 2012

So the question is this:

Can I play Rhetoric's reaction when playing out of the Shadow's Lair as it seems that Rhetoric checks BEFORE I lose honor. It doesn't know that I do not, right?

No, you cannot Rhetoric an Honor loss that does not happen.

Thanks to Timing, the prevention of the loss will remove the trigger of the loss occuring in Step A, before you have the chance to react to it, in Step D.