A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 11 May 2012
Greetings! Does playing sincerity of the Dragon counts for "resolved an action that put cards in my hand" even though if i have not yet completed the delayed effect that sincerity of the dragon provides?
Sincerity of the Dragon As a Focus Effect: After this duel ends, if you won it, give all your provinces +2 strength. Battle/Open: If you are a Dragon Clan player, choose your performing unbowed Dragon Clan Personality: Name a number. After the next resolution this turn of your action from another Strategy or Ring with a base Focus Value equal to the number, draw a card, and choose a player, who discards a card. Remove this card from the game.
The Scorpion wall is Finished Unique Until the game ends, other players' actions will not discard cards from your hand, and after a player has resolved two actions that put cards in his hand in one phase, no more cards will be put into his hand that phase.
Indicision Reaction: After an action resolves, if its player has resolved two or more actions which put cards into his hand this phase: He discards two cards. Battle: If any enemy units are at the current battlefield, choose your performing Personality: Move him there. Straighten him if he moved.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 12 May 2012
Does playing sincerity of the Dragon counts for "resolved an action that put cards in my hand" even though if i have not yet completed the delayed effect that sincerity of the dragon provides?
Because "put" is past-tense, Sincerity of the Dragon won't count as such an action until AFTER you draw from its effect. However, after you do draw, it will count for such effects as Indecision's and The Scorpion Wall is Finished's.
A player, 12 May 2012
here it is stated that Sincerity of the Dragon will count for Indecision and and I kind of see that why because the trigger is after any action so they could react to some other action that has nothing to do with card draw. But after Sincerity of the Dragon resolves it doesn't put any cards into the players hand so I don't see why The Scorpion Wall is Finished would count Sincerity if the Dragon for the card draw part.
I apologize if I'm being a little dense but I honestly don't see why The Scorpion Wall is Finished works that way.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 14 May 2012
here it is stated that Sincerity of the Dragon will count for Indecision and and I kind of see that why because the trigger is after any action so they could react to some other action that has nothing to do with card draw. But after Sincerity of the Dragon resolves it doesn't put any cards into the players hand so I don't see why The Scorpion Wall is Finished would count Sincerity if the Dragon for the card draw part.
I apologize if I'm being a little dense but I honestly don't see why The Scorpion Wall is Finished works that way.
The conditions on The Scorpion Wall is Finished don't stipulate that the action needs to have put the cards in your hand before or at the time of its resolution, only that the player has "resolved" it, and that it "put cards cards in his hand".
After one draws the cards from the delayed effect of Sincerity of the Dragon, it will at that time be both a) an action that the player resolved, and b) an action that put cards in his hand, and therefore qualify.
A player, 14 May 2012
continued from here
So, let's say Scorpion Wall has resolved and in a my action phase I play 1 Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 4 and then play a second Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 4. I draw one card and have a lingering effect that will draw me a card. I now use Ring of the Void to draw another card and have now resolved 2 actions that have put card into my hand and still have a lingering card draw effect which is about to go off. Since I am the active player can I choose to draw the card from Sincerity of the Dragon and then apply the effect from The Scorpion Wall is Finished?
A player, 14 May 2012
Just to check my own understanding of this topic - If I resolve one Sincerity of the Dragon in my Limited phase naming four, play another Sincerity naming 3 and then move to my attack phase, If I react to engaging with Sneak Attack (thus triggering Sincerity of the Dragon's delayed effect), will this count towards Indecision/The Scorpion Wall Is Finished?
Alex Jones (rules official), 14 May 2012
Just to check my own understanding of this topic - If I resolve one Sincerity of the Dragon in my Limited phase naming four, play another Sincerity naming 3 and then move to my attack phase, If I react to engaging with Sneak Attack (thus triggering Sincerity of the Dragon's delayed effect), will this count towards Indecision/The Scorpion Wall Is Finished?
Indecision is clear: After an action resolves, if its player has, in this phase, put cards into his hand as the result of at least two actions - which may have resolved at any time this turn or on any previous turn - then you may react with Indecision.
The Scorpion Wall is Finished is Under discussion.
A player, 17 May 2012
My opponent draws a card with Peddler (for example), then plays A Game of Dice. Can I respond with Indecision after they draw the cards from AGoD at the end of their turn?
A Game of Dice:Limited: Draw two additional cards during your next End Phase.
Indecision:Reaction: After an action resolves, if its player has resolved two or more actions which put cards into his hand this phase: He discards two cards.
In other words, does Indecision trigger from the actions being played, or the cards being drawn?
Many thanks!
Alex Jones (rules official), 18 May 2012
My opponent draws a card with Peddler (for example), then plays A Game of Dice. Can I respond with Indecision after they draw the cards from AGoD at the end of their turn?
A Game of Dice:Limited: Draw two additional cards during your next End Phase.
Indecision:Reaction: After an action resolves, if its player has resolved two or more actions which put cards into his hand this phase: He discards two cards.
In other words, does Indecision trigger from the actions being played, or the cards being drawn?
Many thanks!
No, because, as I explained above, Indecision only triggers if the card draws are in the same phase.
A player, 31 May 2012
I have already pm'd asking your any updates and didn't get a response, so any updates to this thread?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 13 June 2012
I have already pm'd asking your any updates and didn't get a response, so any updates to this thread?
Discussion finally finished on Scorpion Wall!
A technical erratum has been made to clarify that its effect is conditional, not triggered, supporting my ruling above.
A player, 13 June 2012
So with the new errata how does that effect this scenario? Ie how does a conditional effect interact with the Timing sequence?
Similar scenario,Scorpion Wall has resolved and in a my action phase I play 1 Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 4 and then play a second Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 1. I draw one card and have a lingering effect that will draw me a card. I now proceed to the attack phase and play Broken Cipher and draw 2 cards. Can I draw the card from the second Sincerity of the Dragon? Or do I have to play another action that will put cards into my hand to meet the condition of the Scorpion Wall is Finished?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 13 June 2012
So, let's say Scorpion Wall has resolved and in a my action phase I play 1 Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 4 and then play a second Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 4. I draw one card and have a lingering effect that will draw me a card. I now use Ring of the Void to draw another card and have now resolved 2 actions that have put card into my hand and still have a lingering card draw effect which is about to go off. Since I am the active player can I choose to draw the card from Sincerity of the Dragon and then apply the effect from The Scorpion Wall is Finished?
The draw and the Scorpion Wall "no draw" effect don't have the same trigger. The latter prevents the former, the end; no active player choice.
And in this scenario:
Similar scenario,Scorpion Wall has resolved and in a my action phase I play 1 Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 4 and then play a second Sincerity of the Dragon naming a 1. I draw one card and have a lingering effect that will draw me a card. I now proceed to the attack phase and play Broken Cipher and draw 2 cards. Can I draw the card from the second Sincerity of the Dragon? Or do I have to play another action that will put cards into my hand to meet the condition of the Scorpion Wall is Finished?
The cards have to have "put cards in his hand in one phase"; it's the putting of cards in hand that cares about the phase, not when the actions resolved. So, you would draw from the Cipher, and you would draw from the second delayed Sincerity, then you would be prohibited from putting cards in your hand the rest of the Attack Phase.