Temporary Copying of Abilities with Ongoing Effects

L5R CCG Rules board, 3 May 2012 to 4 May 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 3 May 2012

Bit of a convoluted example here, bear with me.

I am playing a Scorpion deck that, to the great disappointment of the Kuroiban, has embraced the power of the Shadowlands. I have used an effect to give my copy of Bayushi Rentatsu the Shadowlands trait. I then copy Rentatsu's ability with Kokujin Konetsu Exp. I then bow Konetsu to use the ability he has copied from Rentatsu.

What happens with Konetsu at the start of my next turn? His base ability has a non-specific duration, so it ends at the end of the turn in which he uses it. Does the effect of his copied ability continue such that, though he no longer has the ability from which the effect derived, he may continue to negate his straightening and thereby generate 2 Honor Loss at the start of my next turn?

Relevant cards: Kokujin Konetsu Maho Battle/Open: Target a Shadowlands Human Personality: Choose one of his abilities that does not itself copy abilities. Konetsu copies it.

Bayushi Rentatsu Limited: Bow Rentatsu: While Rentatsu remains bowed, you may negate his straightening and after each of your turns begins, choose a player; he loses 2 Honor.

Edited to clarify which ability I'm referencing in the question.

Alex Jones (rules official), 4 May 2012

Bit of a convoluted example here, bear with me.

I am playing a Scorpion deck that, to the great disappointment of the Kuroiban, has embraced the power of the Shadowlands. I have used an effect to give my copy of Bayushi Rentatsu the Shadowlands trait. I then copy Rentatsu's ability with Kokujin Konetsu Exp. I then bow Konetsu to use the ability he has copied from Rentatsu.

What happens with Konetsu at the start of my next turn? His base ability has a non-specific duration, so it ends at the end of the turn in which he uses it. Does the effect of his copied ability continue such that, though he no longer has the ability from which the effect derived, he may continue to negate his straightening and thereby generate 2 Honor Loss at the start of my next turn?

Relevant cards: Kokujin Konetsu Maho Battle/Open: Target a Shadowlands Human Personality: Choose one of his abilities that does not itself copy abilities. Konetsu copies it.

Bayushi Rentatsu Limited: Bow Rentatsu: While Rentatsu remains bowed, you may negate his straightening and after each of your turns begins, choose a player; he loses 2 Honor.

Edited to clarify which ability I'm referencing in the question.

Once an action has been announced, it does not matter what happens to the ability it comes from.

For example, a Personality targeted by The Spirit of Knowledge keeps Tactician even if the Strategy it came from is removed from the game or shuffled back into your deck.

If Kokujin Konetsu copies Rentatsu's ability and uses it, the action will continue to generate honour losses as long as Konetsu remains bowed.