A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 5 April 2012
I didn't exactly find anything specifically answering this so I'll ask.
If I take an action that gains me honour (let's say Tell the Tale) and my opponent uses Rhetoric to transfer it themself, can I then use Shiro Chugo to reduce the gain by 2?
Now what if the action has a delayed honour gain or loss (let's say my opponent plays Ambush) and my opponent Rhetorics the loss to me, can I then use Shiro Chugo to reduce the loss by 2?
Rhetoric Reaction: Before a player gains or loses Honor from an action's effects, bow your performing Courtier: Choose another player. If the Courtier's Chi is higher than or equal to the Honor gain or loss, the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss.
Shiro Chugo Reaction: Before an action's resolution, choose your performing unbowed Courtier: Reduce any Honor gain or loss from the action's effects by 2.
Thank you for your time.
Alex Jones (rules official), 8 April 2012
I didn't exactly find anything specifically answering this so I'll ask.
If I take an action that gains me honour (let's say Tell the Tale) and my opponent uses Rhetoric to transfer it themself, can I then use Shiro Chugo to reduce the gain by 2?
Now what if the action has a delayed honour gain or loss (let's say my opponent plays Ambush) and my opponent Rhetorics the loss to me, can I then use Shiro Chugo to reduce the loss by 2?
Rhetoric Reaction: Before a player gains or loses Honor from an action's effects, bow your performing Courtier: Choose another player. If the Courtier's Chi is higher than or equal to the Honor gain or loss, the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss.
Shiro Chugo Reaction: Before an action's resolution, choose your performing unbowed Courtier: Reduce any Honor gain or loss from the action's effects by 2.
Thank you for your time.
No.
Shiro Chugo's Reaction is taken "before an action's resolution", but Rhetoric is played "before a players gains or loses honour from an action's effects" - and since effects are created during the action's resolution (or after, for delayed effects), this is too late for Shiro Chugo's Reaction to be taken.
And while you may take Shiro Chugo's Reaction in response to Rhetoric, it won't achieve anything, since Rhetoric doesn't create a new honour gain or loss, it merely changes who receives it.