Hida's Guidance XP Vs Creating Order

L5R CCG Rules board, 20 March 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 20 March 2012

A Crab Clan player has Hida's Guidance XP in play and is fighting a battle. His opponent has two bowed units and plays Creating Order, targeting both his bowed personalities in order to straighten them. However, Hida's Guidance XP says it would negate the first straightening.

Since each straightening is a separate effect but they occur simultaneously, does the active player choose which one of the straightenings will be negated? Or does "simultaneous" mean that the Celestial will stop both because they try to happen at the same time?

Relevant rules quotes: Definition of effects: Each individual change or creation of a card, a player, a game entity (such as Provinces), a game procedure is a separate effect. [...] Order of effects:If multiple effects are caused by a single piece of text they occur simultaneously, unless otherwise specified by language such as “consecutively.”

Card texts: Hida's Guidance XP: Before the first straightening each battle of a Personality whose enemy leader is a Crab Clan player: Negate that straightening. Creating Order Battle/Open: Target one or two Personalities: Either negate all current and new Force bonuses and penalties on them from actions, or straighten their units.

Edit: Broken links fixed

Ben Higgins (rules official), 20 March 2012

A Crab Clan player has Hida's Guidance XP in play and is fighting a battle. His opponent has two bowed units and plays Creating Order, targeting both his bowed personalities in order to straighten them. However, Hida's Guidance XP says it would negate the first straightening.

Since each straightening is a separate effect but they occur simultaneously, does the active player choose which one of the straightenings will be negated? Or does "simultaneous" mean that the Celestial will stop both because they try to happen at the same time?

Relevant rules quotes: Definition of effects: Each individual change or creation of a card, a player, a game entity (such as Provinces), a game procedure is a separate effect. [...] Order of effects:If multiple effects are caused by a single piece of text they occur simultaneously, unless otherwise specified by language such as “consecutively.”

Card texts: Hida's Guidance XP: Before the first straightening each battle of a Personality whose enemy leader is a Crab Clan player: Negate that straightening. Creating Order Battle/Open: Target one or two Personalities: Either negate all current and new Force bonuses and penalties on them from actions, or straighten their units.

Edit: Broken links fixed

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