Overlaying and the associated rules conundrum

L5R CCG Rules board, 25 January 2012 to 26 January 2012

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 25 January 2012

A lot of questions about Henshin, in reference to this.

I am finding it really hard to understand what the confusion is, since the Emperor comp rules have this to say...

In overlaying, the overlaying card is placed on the overlaid card, and then the overlaid card is removed from the game. Any effects on the overlaying card end, its attachments and tokens are discarded, and for reference purposes it is considered to be the overlaid card. The overlaying card inherits the game state of the overlaid card, including bowed and dishonorable status, attachments, tokens, ongoing effects, and references to the card.

Making the rulings seem pretty straight forward to me.

Q1) Henshin uses printed ability, and is later overlaid, can the Henshin use the same ability again?

Why isn't the answer: That use of an ability is not an "effect", and therefore doesn't end. Card didn't go face down and out of play therefore. No ability can't be used a second time?

Q2) Henshin is dueled, Honesty of the Pheonix Focus Effect is applied to the resulting destruction. Later Henshin is targeted for destruction again, and overlaid using ability on WayStation of the Path. Does the delayed destruction effect still occur?

Why isn't the answer: per the rule quoted above, all effects end including the delayed destruction "effect", therefore Henshin lives?

Q3) Reverse of Q2, the overlaid personalities destruction was delayed by Honesty of the Pheonix, then a different Personality is overlaid using the Ability of Waystation of the Path.

Why isn't the answer: per the rule above, effect applied to the overlaid personality now inherited by the overlaying card, therefore Henshin Dies?

Q4) Dishonorably dead henshin is overlaid onto an honorable Henshin using Oyo's Second Lesson, what is the resulting personalities status?

Why isn't the answer: per the rule above, all effects on the overlaying personality end, therefore: Honorable?

Q5) Reverse of Q4, Honorably dead personality overlaid onto a Dishonorable personality?

Why isn't the answer: per the rule above, overlaying personality inherits all game state effects of the overlaid personality, therefore: Dishonorable?

Q6) Granted abilities granted to the overlaying personality or overlaid personality, which ones stay?

Why isn't the answer: per the rule above, effects that apply to the overlaid card remain, effects that apply to the overlaying card end, therefore abilities granted to the overlaid card stay, and those granted to the overlaying card disapear?

Q7) Henshin uses ambush, then gets overlaid onto another personality during the battle, can the resulting personality move back to the ambush battlefield?

Why isn't the answer: per the rule above, since the resulting personality inherits the gamestate properties of the overlaid personality, he would be considered a differnt personality from the one that performed Ambush, and per ambush's text cannot move/assign to the ambush battlefield?

Q8) similar to Q7, but this is regular battle after the overlaid personality has been in Battle Resolution already.

Why isn't the answer: per the rule above, since the resulting personality inherits the game state of the overlaid personality, he would have already been in battle resolution as an attacker once that Attack Phase already, therefore: no he can't move again (per the rule on Battle movement)?

Q9) Dishonorable henshin targeted with Dispensing Justice, Ability on Waystation of the path overlays onto another personality at the battle field or another battle field. What happens?

Why isn't the answer: per the rule above, the old personality basically vanishes (all effects on him end) therefore nothing happens to the overlaying personality once overlaid?

Am I missing something that makes this less straight forward than it seems?

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 26 January 2012

Am I missing something ...?

This.