A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 20 January 2012
follow up on this
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95794 or this http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95702 or this http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95688
(I kept waiting for it to be answered because the question kept being asked, but the part that I don't think is the inplied question here not made evident by the card text since it isn't koshin keep sepecific is "timing on force comparison + death")
So....
I ranged attack, its effect is delayed by the beserker stronghold (HoF) and I don't have a follow up ranged attack.
As I understand it:
Its effects on him are delayed, so it delays the compare against his force and try to kill him.
Because it did not kill him, it lowers his force, which is also delayed.
* I choose not to take an additional ranged attack*
Is "compare vs force" of a ranged attack an effect on him? or simply a type of trigger. (Is it delayed)
After the battle when the effects are applied. What goes off first? All effects were dalayed to the same timing (after the battle ends). do they occur at the same time? or in order? IF they are the same time, could the active player could decide to apply the force penalty before it applies the compare vs force + death?
Or is the 'compare vs. force' not something that effects the berserker, thus not being delayed. By this logic, does that mean if it WOULD have killed him, but he then later negates all force penalty via fortitude or creating order or adds force via blind rage, does he die anyway because he was small enough to be ranged attacked when it was compared earlier?
Jon Palmer (rules official), 20 January 2012
follow up on this
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95794 or this http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95702 or this http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95688
(I kept waiting for it to be answered because the question kept being asked, but the part that I don't think is the inplied question here not made evident by the card text since it isn't koshin keep sepecific is "timing on force comparison + death")
So....
I ranged attack, its effect is delayed by the beserker stronghold (HoF) and I don't have a follow up ranged attack.
As I understand it:
Its effects on him are delayed, so it delays the compare against his force and try to kill him.
Because it did not kill him, it lowers his force, which is also delayed.
* I choose not to take an additional ranged attack*
Is "compare vs force" of a ranged attack an effect on him? or simply a type of trigger. (Is it delayed)
After the battle when the effects are applied. What goes off first? All effects were dalayed to the same timing (after the battle ends). do they occur at the same time? or in order? IF they are the same time, could the active player could decide to apply the force penalty before it applies the compare vs force + death?
Or is the 'compare vs. force' not something that effects the berserker, thus not being delayed. By this logic, does that mean if it WOULD have killed him, but he then later negates all force penalty via fortitude or creating order or adds force via blind rage, does he die anyway because he was small enough to be ranged attacked when it was compared earlier?
Per the definition of effects, the actual comparison of ranged attack strength vs force is not an effect, and therefore is not delayed. Only an actual destruction (or the force reduction resulting from a non-destruction, under Koshin Keep) is an effect.
Therefore, the situation put forth in your final paragraph is correct. If the Ranged Attack would have killed the Berserker at the time it was targeted, he has a destruction effect being delayed, and further modifications to his force that would have made him survive the Ranged Attack at the time it was executed are irrelevant to his survival. The only thing that can be added afterwards would keep him alive at that point would be something like a blanket destruction negation (such as The Last One).