A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
Greetings!
My lone unbowed samurai is defending against 3 Asako Karachu and i play Turn the tide. What happens?
a.) Game is draw since there is an infinite loop that will never end. b.) None of the Asako Karachu gets bowed (Broken!) c.) insert explanation here?
Thank you.
Greetings!
My lone unbowed samurai is defending against 3 Asako Karachu and i play Turn the tide. What happens?
a.) Game is draw since there is an infinite loop that will never end. b.) None of the Asako Karachu gets bowed (Broken!) c.) insert explanation here?
Thank you.
In a casual game, it would be up to you and your opponent to resolve the issue. Logically, Turn the Tide can never successfully bow Karachu, so a good choice for resolution of the problem would be "b".
For how to resolve it in a tournament setting, see here: Infinite Loops.
So saw this.
And it seems like this is somewhat of a new class of infinite loop from those described in the floor rules. In that no player is actively doing anything to keep the loop going. This is three(or four) cards interacting continuously with each other which prevent the advancement of the game state.
There is however, a second question that needs to be addressed. Does the resolution of this infinite loop change if there are additional unbowed personalities on the side with the 2-3 Karachus? Should the game state of those other units be changed? The resolution is infinite without Turn the Tide affecting those other personalities, but the game result could be drastically different.
So saw this.
And it seems like this is somewhat of a new class of infinite loop from those described in the floor rules. In that no player is actively doing anything to keep the loop going. This is three(or four) cards interacting continuously with each other which prevent the advancement of the game state.
There is however, a second question that needs to be addressed. Does the resolution of this infinite loop change if there are additional unbowed personalities on the side with the 2-3 Karachus? Should the game state of those other units be changed? The resolution is infinite without Turn the Tide affecting those other personalities, but the game result could be drastically different.
Turn the Tide says: "The enemy leader targets and bows a different unbowed Personality in his army, one by one, until his army no longer has more unbowed Personalities than yours, or until he can no longer do so."
"Do so" here refers to the procedure of targeting and bowing a different unbowed Personality in your army. I think that is key to understanding that there is no infinite loop, contrary to what my colleague has supposed.
So with 3 Karachus, you target and bow one, who straightens. You cannot target and bow that one again. You go on to the next copy, and the next. Now you can "no longer do so". So the procedure ends.
With 1 Karachu and 2 normal Personalities, assuming the opposing army has 1 unbowed Personality, targeting the Karachu would not do anything to fulfill the stopping requirement, so you have to go on and target and bow the 2 normal Personalities whether or not you target him. Of course if one of them has an anti-bowing effect, you run out of Personalities to target, even though the other requirement is not met.