A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 8 December 2011
Although the Soul of the Empire Bayushi Goshiu XP3 has different text than has been previewed for the EE Bayushi Rentatsu (Soul of Goshiu XP3), this question applies to both versions.
Bayushi Goshiu XP3 Scorpion Clan Diplomat - Experienced 3 - Unique Goshiu can remain bowed Limited: Bow Goshiu to target a player. Until Goshiu straightens or leaves play, the player loses 2 Honor immediately before each of your turns.
Bayushi Rentatsu Scorpion Clan - Courtier - Unique - Soul of Bayushi Goshiu Experienced 3 Limited: Bow Rentatsu: While Rentatsu remains bowed, you may negate his straightening and after each of your turns begins, choose a player: he loses 2 Honor.
Okay. A plain reading of these cards suggests that they way they "should" work is simple: you bow him. Every turn, you can either straighten him like a normal person, or leave him bowed and ping your opponent's honor. But the sequence of play suggests that might not be how this works. In both cases, the timing of the honor loss occurs before the straighten phase (either "before ... your turn[]" for Goshiu or in the somewhat saner "after ... your turn[] begins" for Rentatsu). So, using Rentatsu's timing here because it makes more sense, your turn looks something like this:
1. Opponent ends his turn. 2. Your turn begins. 3. The delayed effect created by Rentatsu's action (used on the previous turn) triggers ("...after each of your turns begins..."). 4. You choose a player. 5. That player loses 2 Honor. 6. Your straighten phase begins. 7. The delayed effect created by Rentatsu's action triggers ("you may negate his straightening"). 8. You choose not to employ this delayed effect; Rentatsu straightens. 9. You proceed with the rest of your turn. Rentatsu does a variety of Courtier-ish things while unbowed, without bowing. 10. You bow Rentatsu for his printed action.
Ignoring the minor details of the rest of your turn and anything your opponent does other than end his sad, hypothetical turn ... is there any reason this would not go back directly to step 1? If so, is it intended that Goshiu XP3/Rentatsu need not actually negate his straighten-phase straightening in order to cause Honor loss? If not, why not?
Jon Palmer (rules official), 8 December 2011
Although the Soul of the Empire Bayushi Goshiu XP3 has different text than has been previewed for the EE Bayushi Rentatsu (Soul of Goshiu XP3), this question applies to both versions.
Bayushi Goshiu XP3 Scorpion Clan Diplomat - Experienced 3 - Unique Goshiu can remain bowed Limited: Bow Goshiu to target a player. Until Goshiu straightens or leaves play, the player loses 2 Honor immediately before each of your turns.
Bayushi Rentatsu Scorpion Clan - Courtier - Unique - Soul of Bayushi Goshiu Experienced 3 Limited: Bow Rentatsu: While Rentatsu remains bowed, you may negate his straightening and after each of your turns begins, choose a player: he loses 2 Honor.
Okay. A plain reading of these cards suggests that they way they "should" work is simple: you bow him. Every turn, you can either straighten him like a normal person, or leave him bowed and ping your opponent's honor. But the sequence of play suggests that might not be how this works. In both cases, the timing of the honor loss occurs before the straighten phase (either "before ... your turn[]" for Goshiu or in the somewhat saner "after ... your turn[] begins" for Rentatsu). So, using Rentatsu's timing here because it makes more sense, your turn looks something like this:
1. Opponent ends his turn. 2. Your turn begins. 3. The delayed effect created by Rentatsu's action (used on the previous turn) triggers ("...after each of your turns begins..."). 4. You choose a player. 5. That player loses 2 Honor. 6. Your straighten phase begins. 7. The delayed effect created by Rentatsu's action triggers ("you may negate his straightening"). 8. You choose not to employ this delayed effect; Rentatsu straightens. 9. You proceed with the rest of your turn. Rentatsu does a variety of Courtier-ish things while unbowed, without bowing. 10. You bow Rentatsu for his printed action.
Ignoring the minor details of the rest of your turn and anything your opponent does other than end his sad, hypothetical turn ... is there any reason this would not go back directly to step 1? If so, is it intended that Goshiu XP3/Rentatsu need not actually negate his straighten-phase straightening in order to cause Honor loss? If not, why not?
As far as I know we're still in the "not answering questions based on EE cards, even spoiled ones" stage, but the timing you've laid out is correct, Bayushi Goshiu exp3 would in fact cause his honor loss before determining whether or not he wished to straighten during that turn's straighten phase.