A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 8 August 2011
So the question here is this
Battle: Other players may not take Reactions until this action ends. Ranged 5 Attack.
When does the action "end"?
The rules state that instant effects have a different life than continuos effects. but at what point does a Ranged Attack end? When it compares force? When it 'destroys" its target? When the target is "destroyed"? when it would be destroyed? etc.
I get that outer walls, Chugo Seido, Imperial command etc can't be used and that's cool, but can you save them with Duty or Akodo Senichi?
If not then this seems out of control cause now his text defeats redirect, ranged attack strength reduction, and destruction prevention. this seems a tad powerful considering how many cards and card types this "trumps"
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 8 August 2011
When does the action "end"?
An action ends after its resolution, as noted in this sequence of steps A through E.
I get that outer walls, Chugo Seido, Imperial command etc can't be used and that's cool, but can you save them with Duty or Akodo Senichi?
No, Duty and Senichi react during the action's resolution, when the destruction from the Ranged Attack occurs.
In fact, as the poster below points out, you are currently INCORRECT under CE Rules in that you actually CAN react with Outer Walls, Chugo Seido, and Imperial Command. Those react to targeting, which occurs before the action's first effect (the one that prevents Reactions) is applied.
A player, 8 August 2011
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=93307
A follow-up question: When does the inability to react start?
Given that it's an effect of the action, doesn't it technically not start until the Resolution? Which would mean that you could change the target, interfere with costs, use Only Actions Speak, etc.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 9 August 2011
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=93307
A follow-up question: When does the inability to react start?
Given that it's an effect of the action, doesn't it technically not start until the Resolution? Which would mean that you could change the target, interfere with costs, use Only Actions Speak, etc.
The inability to React is the first effect of the action, so it technically begins after that first effect is applied. Currently, Howard, this will allow all the examples you list of Reactions that CAN be taken.
However it should be noted that, come EE, Ranged Attack targeting will occur during effects, not during required targeting, which will greatly increase the number of Reactions prohibited by this effect.
A player, 9 August 2011
From this
"The inability to React is the first effect of the action, so it technically begins after that first effect is applied. Currently, Howard, this will allow all the examples you list of Reactions that CAN be taken."
I'd like to point out that Exception 2 to the general rule of "effects occurs in the order they're written" possibly could apply here?
From the CR:
EXCEPTION 2: Phrases in an ability’s effects that refer to an ability itself, such as “This ability may be used once per battle,” or “This ability will not be copied,” apply to the ability at all times, even when the ability is not being used.
Would this be accepted (or at least considered as a temporary fix until those rules for Ranged Attacks are changed)? Meaning that Aroru's ability would prohibit reactions during the whole action process (announcement, mandatory targeting, and so on)?
Alex Jones (rules official), 9 August 2011
From this
"The inability to React is the first effect of the action, so it technically begins after that first effect is applied. Currently, Howard, this will allow all the examples you list of Reactions that CAN be taken."
I'd like to point out that Exception 2 to the general rule of "effects occurs in the order they're written" possibly could apply here?
From the CR:
EXCEPTION 2: Phrases in an ability’s effects that refer to an ability itself, such as “This ability may be used once per battle,” or “This ability will not be copied,” apply to the ability at all times, even when the ability is not being used.
Would this be accepted (or at least considered as a temporary fix until those rules for Ranged Attacks are changed)? Meaning that Aroru's ability would prohibit reactions during the whole action process (announcement, mandatory targeting, and so on)?
You're confusing abilities and actions.
Ability: Text on a card, or granted to a player, that allows an action to be taken. Abilities are used.
Action: A sequence of performing, targeting, costs, and effects that comes from an ability. ... Actions are taken.
Aroru's ability states, "Other players may not take Reactions until this action ends" - it makes no reference to the ability.
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 10 August 2011
NOTE: The first reply in this thread has been edited twice for clarity since it was first made; worth another look if you haven't read it in a while.
Thank you.