Snow-Swept Summit + The Wind Never Stops

L5R CCG Rules board, 21 March 2011

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 21 March 2011

The Wind Never Stops Reaction: After the resolution of a Battle action you took that gave a Force penalty to an enemy Follower or Personality without Followers, choose your performing Battle Maiden at the current battlefield: Ranged Attack with strength equal to her Personal Honor which must target the enemy card.

Snow-Swept Summit Winter • Terrain Battle: You may take this action even if you control no units at the current battlefield while any Cavalry units are there: Before this battle's resolution, reduce the Force of each Personality and Follower at the current battlefield to 3.

1. Can I play The Wind Never Stops on top of Snow-Swept Summit?

2. If so, can I play it after both player have passed on actions?

Alex Jones (rules official), 21 March 2011

The Wind Never Stops Reaction: After the resolution of a Battle action you took that gave a Force penalty to an enemy Follower or Personality without Followers, choose your performing Battle Maiden at the current battlefield: Ranged Attack with strength equal to her Personal Honor which must target the enemy card.

Snow-Swept Summit Winter • Terrain Battle: You may take this action even if you control no units at the current battlefield while any Cavalry units are there: Before this battle's resolution, reduce the Force of each Personality and Follower at the current battlefield to 3.

1. Can I play The Wind Never Stops on top of Snow-Swept Summit?

2. If so, can I play it after both player have passed on actions?

No, for the reasons my colleague has explained here.

A player, 21 March 2011

The Wind Never Stops Reaction: After the resolution of a Battle action you took that gave a Force penalty to an enemy Follower or Personality without Followers, choose your performing Battle Maiden at the current battlefield: Ranged Attack with strength equal to her Personal Honor which must target the enemy card.

Snow-Swept Summit Winter • Terrain Battle: You may take this action even if you control no units at the current battlefield while any Cavalry units are there: Before this battle's resolution, reduce the Force of each Personality and Follower at the current battlefield to 3.

1. Can I play The Wind Never Stops on top of Snow-Swept Summit? 2. If so, can I play it after both player have passed on actions?

I’ve already been answered in the negative and referred to the “Temporizing Ground + The Wind Never Stops“ ruling, but in my opinion this is different.

Temporizing Ground Terrain Battle: After the resolution of each action, except this one, the player who took the action targets one of his unbowed Personalities or Followers with a Force of 1 or greater at the current battlefield and gives that card -3F.

Terrain Unlike other Strategy cards, a Terrain is not discarded after its action ends. If a Terrain leaves play before a battle’s Final Steps, its ongoing effects end, and its delayed effects will no longer be applied. Discarding a Terrain as part of a battle’s Final Steps ends its ongoing effects, unless those effects are delayed to a point in time that has yet to occur, or unless their duration explicitly lasts beyond the battle resolution.

My understanding is that The Wind Never Stops is reaction I play on the delayed effect when it triggers and not on the battle action when it is being played.

So I would normally play this card after I resolved a battle action and not on top of it.

Since Snow-Swept Summit is still in play,I played it and the effect is being triggered at the resolutions step should I not be able to use The Wind Never Stops at that time?

If I am wrong, am I then playing illegally when I use The Height of Courage to counter Encircled Terrain?

When I posted this originally I was more concerned with “Force penalty” vs “Force reduction”

Mod edit: Formatting removed. Oversized type, bolding, and underlining, is discouraged. Please don't. Thanks! -ZF

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 21 March 2011

My understanding is that The Wind Never Stops is reaction I play on the delayed effect when it triggers and not on the battle action when it is being played.

This is not correct.

Since Snow-Swept Summit is still in play,I played it and the effect is being triggered at the resolutions step should I not be able to use The Wind Never Stops at that time?

No. Snow Swept Summit's resolution starts and ends when it's put into play. If it had any immediate effects, they would happen during the resolution. However, its delayed effects occur well after its resolution has ended.

If I am wrong, am I then playing illegally when I use The Height of Courage to counter Encircled Terrain?

It depends on when you play it. You can play it just before Encircled is put into play, choose a Personality, and then he will not be moved home later when its delayed effects are applied. However, you may not wait until the effect is about to be applied to play Height. That is not its trigger.