Can Thriving Light reduce the honor loss of my personality dying dishonorable if I react to the action destroying my personality?
Thriving Light questions
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
Can Thriving Light reduce the honor loss of my personality dying dishonorable if I react to the action destroying my personality?
Yes. Thriving Light does not care what the source of the Honor loss is, just whether it happens within a certain window of time.
Question 1) If I use Daidoji Gisei's limited ability, when must my opponent decide whether or not to react with The Thriving Light? Before or after I discard the top card of my deck?
Question 2) If I use Daidoji Gisei's limited ability and my opponent reacts with The Thriving Light's reaction to lower the next honor loss by 5, and the discarded card has 5 focus value (so would ordinarily cause 3 honor loss to each player), which of the following happen? I can see justification for more than one. a) Both 3's are reduced to 0 honor loss b) The player who played The Thriving Light gets to reduce the total honor loss of 6 down to 5, leaving one player losing 1 honor. c) The player who played The Thriving Light gets to choose one player's honor loss to reduce to 0, leaving the other player to lose the full 3. d) The active player's honor loss is reduced to 0, the non-active player loses 3 e) The active player's honor loss is reduced to 0, the non active player loses 1
Thanks!
[Mod edit: Thread title changed. I am compiling Thriving Light questions here, as many of them as asking similar things. - ZF]
Question 1) If I use Daidoji Gisei's limited ability, when must my opponent decide whether or not to react with The Thriving Light? Before or after I discard the top card of my deck?
Immediately before Gisei's action's resolution, after its mandatory costs have been paid: he bows Gisei, he discards the top card of your Fate Deck, then you may play The Thriving Light.
Question 2) If I use Daidoji Gisei's limited ability and my opponent reacts with The Thriving Light's reaction to lower the next honor loss by 5, and the discarded card has 5 focus value (so would ordinarily cause 3 honor loss to each player), which of the following happen?
d) The active player's honor loss is reduced to 0, the non-active player loses 3, unless the active player decides the contrary.
Each separate loss of 3 Honor is a distinct effect. The Thriving Light will reduce only one of those losses; the fact that it will reduce it to 'below zero' does not mean that the superfluous reduction affects another effect than the 'next' one. However those Honor losses are simultaneous, so which of them is considered to be the 'next' one is a choice made by the active player (see below).
Timing sequence: "In steps A and B, the active player determines the order of conflicting triggered occurrences as they are happening, not beforehand. The active player must do so in such a way that each of those occurrences happens exactly once. Example: Two personalities destroyed simultaneously in battle resolution, A and B, each have a Reaction or trait that trigger before they are destroyed. The active player decides whether Reactions and traits triggered by A’s destruction happen before or after Reactions and traits triggered by B’s destruction."
In response to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=89266
This is where my brain starts to hurt a little bit. I'm confused because the section of the rules you quoted comes when dealing with conflicting "triggers" but I'm confused because it doesn't seem like any of the effects we're dealing with here are "triggered"
To walk through the process...
Player A announces Gisei's ability, pays the cost (bowing Gisei and discarding top card of deck, which has 5 focus value). Player B reacts with The Thriving Light before Gisei's action's resolution. The Thriving Light resolves, looking for the "next" honor gain or loss to happen during Gisei's action's resolution. (I think this is where I'm confused... is "next" a trigger? I thought triggers always started with "before", "after", or "when".)
If my opponent were to play Arranged Guilt and I was to react with Thriving Light, (A) he would not lose the honor because his loss is first and I end up losing 3 honor? Or (B) can i wait til after he loses the 3 honor then react with Thriving Light to reduce my loss of 3 honor? I would think its (A) because my opportunity to play Thriving Light happens after my opponent dishonors and destroys his Courtier or Magistrate.
Arranged Guilt Political Limited: Dishonor and destroy your target unbowed Courtier or Magistrate Personality: Dishonor another player's target Personality. You, then that Personality's owner, each lose 3 Honor.
The Thriving Light Political • Unique Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero). Battle: Destroy a target Terrain. Limited: Destroy a target Region. Open: Bow a target attachment.
If my opponent were to play Arranged Guilt and I was to react with Thriving Light, (A) he would not lose the honor because his loss is first and I end up losing 3 honor? Or (B) can i wait til after he loses the 3 honor then react with Thriving Light to reduce my loss of 3 honor? I would think its (A) because my opportunity to play Thriving Light happens after my opponent dishonors and destroys his Courtier or Magistrate.
Arranged Guilt Political Limited: Dishonor and destroy your target unbowed Courtier or Magistrate Personality: Dishonor another player's target Personality. You, then that Personality's owner, each lose 3 Honor.
The Thriving Light Political • Unique Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero). Battle: Destroy a target Terrain. Limited: Destroy a target Region. Open: Bow a target attachment.
"Trigger" is used in a broad sense, and it is not formally defined as a game term. Your impression that triggers are indicated by certain words is just an impression, not a rule.
In this case, the honor loss is indeed a "trigger" for the effect of Thriving Light.
If my opponent were to play Arranged Guilt and I was to react with Thriving Light, (A) he would not lose the honor because his loss is first and I end up losing 3 honor? Or (B) can i wait til after he loses the 3 honor then react with Thriving Light to reduce my loss of 3 honor?
You cannot wait to play Thriving Light. It has a clearly defined point where it is played: Immediately after an action's mandatory costs have been paid but before any effects happen.
Thriving Light would affect the first lose, but not your, because they are spelled out as happening in order, not simultaneously.
Thriving light can be played before resolution... First off define resolution?
May it be used at anytime during a active duel?
IE, I focus, he focuses, I respond with thriving light, and say strike?
First off define resolution?
Right here: http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Abilities_and_a ... resolution
After payment and targeting.
May it be used at anytime during a active duel?
No. There has to be an action.