The Shadow Court and who loses the game.

We had a situation arise that no one locally knew how to handle.

A military player was attacking a control player's last province.

The military player was at -18 honor. The control player defends with a courtier and plays The Shadow Court targeting his defending courtier. The military player still had enough force to take the province and kill the courtier. Neither player had any other actions, so they went to battle resolution.

The question is, during resolution does the personality get destroyed first thus the military player goes down to -20 honor and loses, or does the province get destroyed first and the control player loses?

Relevent text:

The Shadow Court Battle: Choose your performing defending Courtier: Bow a target enemy Personality. After the next time this turn another player's action or a battle resolution destroys your Courtier, draw a card and choose a player, who gains or loses 2 Honor.

http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Battles#C._Resolution_Segment If the Attacker wins:

i. The Attacker simultaneously destroys all cards in the defending army.

ii. If the attacking army's total Force when the outcome was determined was greater than the defending army’s total Force plus the Province Strength of the current battlefield’s province, the Attacker destroys the province.

iii. The Attacker gains Honor from resolution equal to twice the number of cards in the defending army that were destroyed by the effects of resolution. EXCEPTION: If any dishonorable Personalities are in the winning army, see Honorable and dishonorable.

We at our gaming group ran into this scenario in our play group. The attacker is at -18 honor, I assign my defending courtier, play shadow court. We go to battle resolution, and he out forces my side. When exactly does the honor loss caused by the shadow court trigger? Since battle resolution is what is killing my courtier, does he gain the 2 honor for destroying my card at the battle (he had no dishonorable personalities at the battlefield) before the loss for shadow court or after?

I did read viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88889 but I was confused about the timing exactly.

The Shadow Court

Battle: Choose your performing defending Courtier: Bow a target enemy Personality. After the next time this turn another player's action or a battle(s) resolution destroys your Courtier, draw a card and choose a player, who gains or loses 2 Honor. C. Resolution Segment

"Steps 1 through 3 happen in sequence as part of the Resolution Segment. A battle’s “resolution” refers to this Segment. None of these steps happen if the battle has no resolution.

1. Determine Outcome: Total the Force of each army (see Total Force). Whichever army has the highest total Force wins.

A side with no units has zero Force for purposes of this comparison, and is not affected by things that directly alter the Force of an “army”.

The calculation and comparison of army force is made only once. Any changes to army total Force after this point (e.g., units on the winning side being destroyed due to Reactions) do not alter the outcome.

The winning army’s leader (the Attacker or Defender) is the winner of the battle.

If both armies have the same total Force and both armies contain one or more units, the battle is a tie.

Any other result (such as an army with total Force of zero versus a side with no units) has no defined outcome, in which case, nothing happens in step 2.

2. Effects of Resolution: Follow one of the procedures under this heading, in order, depending on the battle’s outcome.

If the Attacker wins:

i. The Attacker simultaneously destroys all cards in the defending army.

ii. If the attacking army's total Force when the outcome was determined was greater than the defending army’s total Force plus the Province Strength of the current battlefield’s province, the Attacker destroys the province.

iii. The Attacker gains Honor from resolution equal to twice the number of cards in the defending army that were destroyed by the effects of resolution. EXCEPTION: If any dishonorable Personalities are in the winning army, see Honorable and dishonorable.

If the Defender wins:

i. The Defender simultaneously destroys all cards in the attacking army.

ii. The Defender gains Honor from resolution equal to twice the number of cards in the attacking army that were destroyed by the effects of resolution, subject to the above Exception about dishonorable Personalities.

If the armies tie:

i. The Attacker and Defender simultaneously rehonor any dishonorable personalities in their own army.

ii. The Attacker and Defender simultaneously destroy all cards in their respective enemy leader's army.

iii. If no personalities in the Attacker’s army were dishonorable before taking step i above, the Attacker gains Honor equal to the number of cards he or she destroyed this way.

iv. If no personalities in the Defender’s army were dishonorable before taking step i above, the Defender gains Honor equal to the number of cards he or she destroyed this way.

Destruction of Provinces and cards, Honor gains, and rehonoring, as results of the above procedures, are all effects of battle resolution. Such effects come "from" battle resolution and "by winning" the battle.

Card effects that may be applied "in" or "during" battle resolution are not effects of, and do not come "from," resolution or "by winning" the battle.

3. Resolution ends."

Does The Shadow Court trigger after the bolded 'i' under section 2. effects of resolution or after battle resolution ends(ie 3.). The card says after a battle resolution destroys the card, and the heading (in bold) refers to a battle's resolution as the whole segment. This is why I am confused about the ruling in the other post referenced. If you could give me a reason as to why shadow court resolves when it does that would be really helpful. Thanks in advance.

Citing this as a reference: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88889

A question rose in the deck forum about the particular timing of Words Have Strength, so this is more of a clarification on how that particular card works. Same scenario, it is your last province and your opponent is at -17 or lower. He destroys a courtier during battle resolution. Does Words Have Strength get a chance to act immediately during part i: simultaneously destroy the enemy army? Or must it wait until the entirety of the battle resolution has completed (after part iii: gaining honor) before it could be used?

Words Have Strength:

You may only play one copy of Words Have Strength in reaction to any one resolution. Reaction: After a battle resolution or the resolution of another player's Battle action, if the resolution or action destroyed any of your Courtiers or Magistrates: Choose a player who loses 3 Honor.

Italicized for unclear text in question.

Thanks.