A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 2 August 2010
I was playing the other night and an interesting question came up. Are permanent force bonuses always considered to be bonuses from actions? For example, I had Utaku Keiko on the table and I played Arrival of the Obsidian Champion on her. This boosted her force permanently to 10 and reduced her chi to 2. My opponent was trying to tell me that after the end of the turn if Keiko was targeted by cards like Shameful Injury that her force would only be reduced to 10 instead of 2. Is this true?
Arrival of the Obsidian Champion:
Open: Lose 3 Honor. Dishonor your target Personality with a Gold Cost of 9 or higher. Permanently set his Force to 10 and his Chi to 2. Permanently give him Shadowlands and the ability, “Fear Battle: Bow each Follower with 4 or less Force in a target unit.”
Shameful Injury:
Battle: Even if you control no units at the current battlefield: Negate all current Force bonuses and penalties a target Personality has received from actions. Until the turn ends, negate all new Force bonuses or penalties on him from actions.
Thanks for your help.
A player, 2 August 2010
Are permanent force bonuses always considered to be bonuses from actions?
No. Nothing is "considered to be": either it is, or it is not. A permanent Force bonus comes from an action if an action's costs or effects produced it, and it does not cease to come from an action when the turn when the action was taken ends. See From in the glossary, and Sources of effects.
My opponent was trying to tell me that after the end of the turn if Keiko was targeted by cards like Shameful Injury that her force would only be reduced to 10 instead of 2. Is this true?
No it is false. Shameful Injury negates Keiko's current Force bonuses from actions. Her current permanent Force bonus of +8F comes from the Open action on Arrival of the Obsidian Champion, so it is a Force bonus from an action, which is precisely what Shameful Injury negates.
A player, 3 August 2010
Regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=85455
I thought it had been changed previously, looked it up, and found this:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=76509&p=1066943&hilit=+bonus#p1066943
which of these rulings is correct? Basically, does a force negation negate a permanent force bonus for the rest of the game (what appears to be the case in the first link), or does the person only lose the bonus until the end of the turn (as per the second link)?
A player, 3 August 2010
which of these rulings is correct?
Both of them. The first one above states that Shameful Injury does negate the Force bonus from Arrival of the Obsidian Champion (because it comes from an action), the second one precises that the negation effect from Shameful Injury lasts until the turn ends, then the ongoing Force bonus that was negated reasserts itself.