A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 12 March 2010
Hi,
I have some questions about Yodin Sensei. I would like to check that my strategy is legal for the Kotei of Paris' Legacy Side Event. The question is : Can I target other players' personalities that are not in play ?
Here are some cases (I always use Yodin Sensei) :
1) Bayushi Aramoro (Base Version) Can I target a face-up personality in un other player's province ?
If I target a face-down card and discard it, what happened if it was a personality ? What if I know that is a face-down personality ? (For exemple : I have seen it with another card effect like Hidden Moon Dojo) Am I Cheating ?
2) Bane of the Bastard if another player control the wind called Kaneka. Can I target face-up personalities in that player's province or not ?
3) Moto Akikazu (Base Version) Can I target another player's personality in his discard pile ?
4) The Khan's Shining Horde Can I pay the cost of any of the two base abilities of this stronghold with another player's personality in his discard piles ?
----- The cards' text
Yodin Sensei (Old) You cannot target other players' Personalities with card effects.
Bayushi Aramoro (Old) Limited: Bow Bayushi Aromaro. Force the discard of a Dynasty card from any one Province in play
Bane of the Bastard (Diamond) Open: Target number of face-up Dynasty cards in Provinces of a player who has Akodo Kaneka as a Wind. Put those cards on the bottom of that player's deck and refill those Provinces face-up.
Moto Akikazu (Samurai) Limited: Target a discarded Personality in another player's discard pile. He becomes honorably dead
The Khan's Shining Horde (Lotus : The Truest Test) Open: Remove a Personality in any discard pile from the game: Straighten a target Personality. Battle: Remove a Personality in any discard pile from the game: Bow a target Personality.
Hidden Moon Dojo (Celestial) Open: Look at all face-down cards in a target player's provinces. If you destroy a province this turn, its owner will not refill provinces during his next Action Phase. -----
Thanks in advance for your answers,
Bye...............Rémi.
Alex Jones (rules official), 12 March 2010
Hi,
I have some questions about Yodin Sensei. I would like to check that my strategy is legal for the Kotei of Paris' Legacy Side Event. The question is : Can I target other players' personalities that are not in play ?
Here are some cases (I always use Yodin Sensei) :
1) Bayushi Aramoro (Base Version) Can I target a face-up personality in un other player's province ?
If I target a face-down card and discard it, what happened if it was a personality ? What if I know that is a face-down personality ? (For exemple : I have seen it with another card effect like Hidden Moon Dojo) Am I Cheating ?
2) Bane of the Bastard if another player control the wind called Kaneka. Can I target face-up personalities in that player's province or not ?
3) Moto Akikazu (Base Version) Can I target another player's personality in his discard pile ?
4) The Khan's Shining Horde Can I pay the cost of any of the two base abilities of this stronghold with another player's personality in his discard piles ?
----- The cards' text
Yodin Sensei (Old) You cannot target other players' Personalities with card effects.
Bayushi Aramoro (Old) Limited: Bow Bayushi Aromaro. Force the discard of a Dynasty card from any one Province in play
Bane of the Bastard (Diamond) Open: Target number of face-up Dynasty cards in Provinces of a player who has Akodo Kaneka as a Wind. Put those cards on the bottom of that player's deck and refill those Provinces face-up.
Moto Akikazu (Samurai) Limited: Target a discarded Personality in another player's discard pile. He becomes honorably dead
The Khan's Shining Horde (Lotus : The Truest Test) Open: Remove a Personality in any discard pile from the game: Straighten a target Personality. Battle: Remove a Personality in any discard pile from the game: Bow a target Personality.
Hidden Moon Dojo (Celestial) Open: Look at all face-down cards in a target player's provinces. If you destroy a province this turn, its owner will not refill provinces during his next Action Phase. -----
Thanks in advance for your answers,
Bye...............Rémi.
Glossary, Your: When “your” and other possessive forms such as “the player’s” or “his” refer to a card, this means “controlled by that player" if the card is in play, or "owned by that player" if the card is not in play.
The "other players' Personalities" clause on Yodin Sensei is a possessive form, so Yodin Sensei prevents you targeting Personalities in play controlled by other players and Personalities out of play owned by other players.
1) Bayushi Aramoro (Base Version) Can I target a face-up personality in un other player's province ? No.
If I target a face-down card and discard it, what happened if it was a personality ? What if I know that is a face-down personality ? It's a legal target since game state doesn't "know" that it's a Personality.
2) Bane of the Bastard if another player control the wind called Kaneka. Can I target face-up personalities in that player's province or not ? No.
3) Moto Akikazu (Base Version) Can I target another player's personality in his discard pile ? No.
4) The Khan's Shining Horde Can I pay the cost of any of the two base abilities of this stronghold with another player's personality in his discard piles ? Neither ability targets, so yes [FIXED].
Alex Jones (rules official), 12 March 2010
Note that there are two cases where a Personality can be face-down and out of play, yet still known by the game state to be a Personality: a Personality attached to a Province via Shiro Kitsuki or Kitsuki Otojiro, or a face-down Ninjutsu Personality.
Alex