A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 8 March 2010
This hasn't happened yet, but I'm sure its just a matter of time before it does and I would like to know what to do if it does.
If I'm running two guidances in my deck, and I use the border keep ability and both guidance flip from the action,:
1) Do they both go into play?? 2) Do they get flipped one at a time from left to right just like in the events phase and the second one flipped replaces the first? 3) Do I get to just pick the one that goes into play and discard the other?
Also, on a similar topic. If my opponent's The Lost Path has resolved, and then the above situation arises, what happens then?
Thanks
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 8 March 2010
This hasn't happened yet, but I'm sure its just a matter of time before it does and I would like to know what to do if it does.
If I'm running two guidances in my deck, and I use the border keep ability and both guidance flip from the action,:
1) Do they both go into play?? 2) Do they get flipped one at a time from left to right just like in the events phase and the second one flipped replaces the first? 3) Do I get to just pick the one that goes into play and discard the other?
Also, on a similar topic. If my opponent's The Lost Path has resolved, and then the above situation arises, what happens then?
Thanks
I don't understand the question.
Roger Giner-Sorolla (rules official), 9 March 2010
By "Guidance" I think you mean the card type "Celestial."
Border Keep refills the provinces face-up simultaneously. If this reveals more than one Celestial, they will then both enter play simultaneously. They don't discard each other because each one is not in play when the other enters play.
A player, 3 May 2010
Regarding this ruling:
viewtopic.php?p=1074999#p1074999
I understand the ruling, as per this quote from the Rules blog:
How does Border Keep work?
Q. When using Border Keep, what order are cards removed, put on the bottom of the deck, and replaced in?
A. Determine which cards are being removed simultaneously, and remove them all from their Provinces simultaneously. Because it is physically impossible to put all cards on the bottom of the deck simultaneously, the order is chosen by the player. The Provinces are also all refilled simultaneously, because multiple effects created by a single piece of text are simultaneous.
But I've read multiple times that simultaneous effects for which the order of resolution is relevant actually occur in and order determined by the active player. Shouldn't that rule also apply to this particular case, so that the player using Border Keep decides which province is refilled first, and thus which Celestial enters play first (before actually seeing them)? It's mostly the same as determining which face up card goes to the bottom of the deck first.
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 3 May 2010
I've read multiple times that simultaneous effects for which the order of resolution is relevant actually occur in and order determined by the active player. Shouldn't that rule also apply to this particular case(?)
There's a key word in the FAQ answer, "physically impossible." That creates an unusual situation that should not be extrapolated to others.
Some effects are simultaneous (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Order_of_effects), and whether they are simultaneous is determined by card text.
A player, 30 May 2010
According to
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82263&p=1093024&hilit=+celestials+rules#p1093024
how does it all work with
"Resolving timing conflicts
Two Reactions, triggered traits, or other triggered occurrences (such as Honor loss after a dishonorable Personality dies) will never begin at the same time.
Timing conflicts can be caused by multiple triggers that either respond to the same occurrence, or to simultaneous occurrences (such as more than one Personality being destroyed simultaneously in battle resolution)."
why this rule cannot be applied in this case?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 30 May 2010
According to
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82263&p=1093024&hilit=+celestials+rules#p1093024
how does it all work with
"Resolving timing conflicts
Two Reactions, triggered traits, or other triggered occurrences (such as Honor loss after a dishonorable Personality dies) will never begin at the same time.
Timing conflicts can be caused by multiple triggers that either respond to the same occurrence, or to simultaneous occurrences (such as more than one Personality being destroyed simultaneously in battle resolution)."
why this rule cannot be applied in this case?
Because it's not two Reactions, or two triggered traits, or two triggered occurrences.
It's one effect that deals with two cards simultaneously.
Roger Giner-Sorolla (rules official), 30 May 2010
When simultaneous effects caused by a single piece of text create multiple game procedures containing more than one step, each step of each procedure takes place simultaneously, in parallel. Example: When instructed "Bring into play all face-up Personalities in your provinces," the entering-play procedure actually has five steps (see Card types, Playing Personalities). So, each Personality simultaneously enters its entering-play area (step A); then, each Personality's restrictions are checked simultaneously (step B); and so forth.
The "physical" procedure of turning over cards in this case doesn't bear on whether the effects are simultaneous under the rules.