Conspiracy, death and returning

L5R CCG Rules board, 3 March 2010 to 4 March 2010

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 3 March 2010

If the following scenario occurs: Player A's turn 4: Player A resolves conspiracy and targets Player B's Houhou. Player B's turn 5: Use Seiden Sanzo's ability to give Houhou +3F. Player B skips combat segment. Houhou is destroyed (honorably) Player A's turn 5: Player A takes his or her turn Player B's Turn 6: Player B uses Houhou's limited ability to bring it back into play. During a battle segment, Houhou is destroyed. Does player A and B lose 5 honor? Does the fact that Houhou has been honorably dead have any relevance?

Relevant card text: Conspiracy: Choose a Personality. After the next time this game he is destroyed while in an army, you, then the player who last controlled the Personality, each lose 5 Honor.

Houhou: Limited: If Houhou is honorably dead: She rises from the ashes. Bring her into play, paying 4 less Gold. If she entered play, gain 3 Honor (this is an Honor gain for entering play)

Seiden Sanzo: Limited: Target a Personality you own and control. Give him Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins.

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 3 March 2010

If the following scenario occurs: Player A's turn 4: Player A resolves conspiracy and targets Player B's Houhou. Player B's turn 5: Use Seiden Sanzo's ability to give Houhou +3F. Player B skips combat segment. Houhou is destroyed (honorably)

EDIT: See below answer

A player, 3 March 2010

Just to clarify this answer.

According to the OP, houhou dies without being in an army (My highlights): Player B's turn 5: Use Seiden Sanzo's ability to give Houhou +3F. Player B skips combat segment. Houhou is destroyed (honorably)

Genji said: "Stop. At the time Houhou is destroyed from Seiden Sanzo's effects, Player A and B lose 5 honor per Conspiracy's text. Honorably Dead/Dishonorably dead has no relevance here."

Is Houhou considered to be in an army even when the combat segment has not happened? or did you miss the statement about there being no combat segment?

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 4 March 2010

Just to clarify this answer.

According to the OP, houhou dies without being in an army (My highlights): Player B's turn 5: Use Seiden Sanzo's ability to give Houhou +3F. Player B skips combat segment. Houhou is destroyed (honorably)

Genji said: "Stop. At the time Houhou is destroyed from Seiden Sanzo's effects, Player A and B lose 5 honor per Conspiracy's text. Honorably Dead/Dishonorably dead has no relevance here."

Is Houhou considered to be in an army even when the combat segment has not happened? or did you miss the statement about there being no combat segment?

Yeah, I missed it. Sorry about that.

Conspiracy's effects do not end when Houhou hits the discard pile. They end after Houhou is destroyed while in an army. At that time, the resolver of Conspiracy and the player who last controlled Houhou will lose 5 honor.

On: Houhou