Delayed Effects, Reactions and Rings

I've been playing L5R since Emerald Edition, and I'm a TO and Bounty Hunter, subsequently I'm the go to rules guy in my playgroup. I consider myself to have a firm grasp of the rules of this game, but I am having quite a bit of trouble sorting out some rules interactions when it comes to delayed effects and reactions. No offense meant to the rules team, for the most part you guys do a good job on rulings and I appreciate the fact that you take your time to explain why they work the way they do, but sometimes it seems that in your desire for us to understand certain rules interactions you neglect to give a clear and concise answer. Lengthy explanations are good and much appreciated, but sometimes a simple yes or no answer would help put your explanation in context and help clarify the issue. Without yes or no answers one if often left wondering what exactly was meant by a lengthy explanation and on more occasions than I can count, the reader comes away with the opposite interpretation than that which you intended. Because of this, there seems to be a lot of confusion on how delayed effects interact with reactions, specially with such cards as Mountains of the Phoenix and rings. I would greatly appreciate simple yes or no anwers, not only for my playgroup's sake but to help you clarify this issues once and for all and to keep these kinds of questions to a minimun in the future, saving you both time and effort, though by all means please, include any and all points you feel might bring further clarity to your answers.

Relevant Text: Mountains of the Phoenix Terrain Battle: Before this battle’s resolution, the Attacker and the Defender each choose a unit in their own army; the active player decides who chooses first. Then, destroy the chosen units.

Ring of Water After you successfully resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle: You may put this card into play from your hand.

It is understood that for any type of action to be successful it has to cause a change in game state and that the resolution of an action ends when its last effect is activated. Furthermore, it is understood that in this context activated is not meant as being synonymous with triggered, and it is understood that activation of effects happen immediately after the action is announced and all costs have been paid in the order in which they appear in the action. Given this, it is clear that reactions that would trigger after the resolution of an action that destroyed a personality would not trigger of Mountains of the Phoenix, because the action has finished resolving long before it's delayed effect would be triggered.

My question, which has been asked elsewhere, http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=78826, but not been given a clear response, is that if all the above holds true, can the Ring of Water be played in response to the successful resolution of Mountains of the Phoenix? Again, if all the above holds true, the answer should be "no", because the action on Mountains of the Phoenix has finished resolving long before we would even check for the possibility of it's delayed effect being successful.

If the answer is "yes," and I don't see any logical possibility of this being the correct anwer, it would create the conumdrum of when exactly to play the Ring of Water, since the Ring has to be played in response to the "successful resolution" of the battle action on Mountains of the Phoenix, and the action on the Mountains has finished resolving long before we know whether or not it will be successful. Given this, the only answer that would make any sense is that you cannot play the Ring of Water in response to Mountains of the Phoenix. By logical extension one should never be able to play the Ring of Water, and other such cards with the same trigger, in response to any actions that only have delayed effects.

Thanks for your patience and your time.

I would greatly appreciate simple yes or no anwers

We understand this desire but at the same time please don't forget that we are not giving an answer to you alone, we are answering to all players who are interested in the question, and some of them may want to know more than "yes or no".

can the Ring of Water be played in response to the successful resolution of Mountains of the Phoenix?

Yes, assuming this Terrain action is the fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles you successfully resolved in one battle.

Aside: as said there, the rules team is still discussing whether the previous Battle actions need to be successful too. We'll let you know as soon as possible.

when exactly to play the Ring of Water[?]

Immediately after the Terrain action resolved, which happens roughly a second and a half after this Strategy card enters play at the current battlefield.

You seem to think that an action with delayed effects only is considered to be successful from the moment when any delayed effect is actually applied and it changes the game state. This is where you are wrong: you always know whether an action has been successful when it ends.

Let me try to explain why this Terrain action is successful. When a delayed effect is activated, it does not mean that nothing happens in the game state. Indeed from the moment when it is activated, its trigger is constantly checked; as soon as it happens, the delayed effect is applied: these are actual changes in the game state, you may think of it as a "delaying effect" of the action.

To say it more simply, the difference in the game state between before and after you played Mountains of the Phoenix is that, after it resolved, somebody may die from its effects between the end of the Combat Segment and the start of the Resolution Segment, which would not happen if you had not played it: this highlights success. The fact that somebody actually dies or not when the lethal effect is applied does not matter, neither does the end of the delayed effect if the Terrain is destroyed before it is applied, because it is the risk of death itself that matters: such a risk has been created by the action's effects, which explains why actions with delayed effects only are always successful. Well, assuming they are activated: if you play Mountains of the Phoenix thanks to Untested Scouts and I react with Reinforce the Gates, your Terrain card enters play but its action is not successful because its effect do not happen. I hope my explanations are clear enough, this is a complex matter.

For instance, compare with Unfamilar Ground played at a battlefield where all cards have less than five Force: nothing happens now, nothing will happen later, there is no success.