A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 27 July 2009
OK, so a few more questions on when an action is "Successfully Resolved" for the purposes of Ring of Air/Water/Void
From what I understand, an action is successfully resolved if it changed something in the game state. My question is, does the action as a WHOLE have to change the game state, or does the EFFECT of the action have to change the game state?
Examples to illustrate: I have an unbowed shugenja with an unbowed Servitors of Stone attached in a battle. I announce the Battle action on Servitors of Stone, targeting Servitors of Stone, then bowing the spell to pay the cost, then straigtening the spell for its effect. Now, was that a successful action or not? The action looked at as a whole (from announcement to effect) had no change in game state, but the actions effects did change the game state when the effect was being processed.
Alternatively, lets say I have an unbowed shugenja and a Ring of Air in play during a battle. I announce the Battle action on Ring of Air, targeting my unbowed shugenja, then bowing the Ring of Air to pay the cost, then attempting but failing to straighten the shugenja during the action's effects. Was that a successful action? In this case, the action's effects resulted in no change in game state, but the action looked at as a whole did result in a change of game state (Ring of Air is bowed).
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Dan Jacobson (rules official), 27 July 2009
OK, so a few more questions on when an action is "Successfully Resolved" for the purposes of Ring of Air/Water/Void
From what I understand, an action is successfully resolved if it changed something in the game state. My question is, does the action as a WHOLE have to change the game state, or does the EFFECT of the action have to change the game state?
Examples to illustrate: I have an unbowed shugenja with an unbowed Servitors of Stone attached in a battle. I announce the Battle action on Servitors of Stone, targeting Servitors of Stone, then bowing the spell to pay the cost, then straigtening the spell for its effect. Now, was that a successful action or not? The action looked at as a whole (from announcement to effect) had no change in game state, but the actions effects did change the game state when the effect was being processed.
Alternatively, lets say I have an unbowed shugenja and a Ring of Air in play during a battle. I announce the Battle action on Ring of Air, targeting my unbowed shugenja, then bowing the Ring of Air to pay the cost, then attempting but failing to straighten the shugenja during the action's effects. Was that a successful action? In this case, the action's effects resulted in no change in game state, but the action looked at as a whole did result in a change of game state (Ring of Air is bowed).
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Under discussion.
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 27 July 2009
You can use the Samurai Edition definition of successful for now:
http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_S#Successful: "A successful action or other occurrence is one whose effects produced one or more actual changes in the game state" (emphasis added).
A player, 27 July 2009
I'm really sorry to keep hammering with these questions on the topic of "successfully", but hopefully clearing up these nuances early in the arc will make for a smoother base to build on for the rest of Celestial Edition.
I'm wondering how multiple reactions to the same effect would be classified as either successful or unsuccessful.
Here's some examples. My opponent is attacking with a Naval Personality. I defend with a personality. He uses the Naval reaction, and announces a Battle action printed on his naval personality. I have 3 copies of Reinforce the Gates in hand. I react to his announcement with all 3 copies of Reinforce the Gates (more accurately I react with one Reinforce the gates, allow it to resolve, then react with the 2nd Reinforce, etc.). You could argue that each Reinforce the Gates has resolved during announcement and each one's effects has independetly created an effect that will cause the Naval action's effects to not happen. Alternatively, you could argue that the 2nd and 3rd copies of Reinforce the Gates's effects had no effect... So, here's the questions: 1) Do the 2nd and 3rd copies of Reinforce the Gates count as successfully resolved actions?
2) I think the answer to question 1 would be the same as this: If I use 3 copies of Shameful Injury on the same target, do the 2nd and 3rd copy count as successful? They each set up a "can't gain force bonuses" effect, but each of those effects beyond the first is irrelevant (at least with the current card pool)
Thanks again for your help. I hope this isn't annoying, I just feel like it would be good to have this "successfully" thing completely clear by the time Gencon rolls around, I suspect some rings will be dropping at the tables!
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 27 July 2009
I'm really sorry to keep hammering with these questions on the topic of "successfully", but hopefully clearing up these nuances early in the arc will make for a smoother base to build on for the rest of Celestial Edition.
All of these are going to be answered in the context of the Samurai Edition rules, as the Celestial Edition rules have not been finalized.
Do the 2nd and 3rd copies of Reinforce the Gates count as successfully resolved actions?
No.
If I use 3 copies of Shameful Injury on the same target, do the 2nd and 3rd copy count as successful?
No.
Once something has been prevented, a second or third prevention has no effect. It reminds me of trying to give a card a keyword that it already has, which also doesn't work. http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Keywords: "Effects that grant a keyword to a card that already has it do not give it an extra copy of the keyword."
A player, 30 July 2009
Hello! A thread below (viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77845) asks about whether Servitors of Stone is a successfully resolved action if the effect straightens the spell. It seems to me that the answer is yes, according to the SE rules. Am I correct in this assumption?
Thanks!
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 30 July 2009
(Is) Servitors of Stone is a successfully resolved action if the effect straightens the spell. It seems to me that the answer is yes, according to the SE rules. Am I correct in this assumption?
Bowing Servitors of Stone does not make its action successful; that's a cost, and costs aren't factored into determining "success." Straightening a card with its effect does factor into "success."