Imperial Artificer + Farmlands

L5R CCG Rules board, 25 July 2009 to 2 September 2009

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 25 July 2009

I've had numerous ruling on this card combination, but in favor and against so I here I am for an official ruling:

Holding Imperial Artificer Bow this card: Produce 2 Gold. If this pays for a Follower or Item attaching to a Samurai, you may draw a card, then discard a card.

Region Farmlands Farm • Singular Limited: Pay 2 Gold: Create a 1F Follower and attach it to your target Personality.

The rules question is as follows: If Imperial Artificer bows to produce two gold that is used to pay the cost for Farmlands and the 1F Follower is attached to a Samurai does the additional draw of the Imperial Artificer trigger?

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 25 July 2009

f Imperial Artificer bows to produce two gold that is used to pay the cost for Farmlands and the 1F Follower is attached to a Samurai does the additional draw of the Imperial Artificer trigger?

No.

http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Created_cards

You are paying the cost of the Limited action of Farmlands. The follower by the action created has no gold cost.

A player, 26 July 2009

Regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77808

May I pay for Farmland's action, then overpay for the token -- with imperial artificers -- while attaching said token to a samurai personality, to trigger imperial artificers?

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 26 July 2009

Regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77808

May I pay for Farmland's action, then overpay for the token -- with imperial artificers -- while attaching said token to a samurai personality, to trigger imperial artificers?

Small correction to your question: Created cards are not "tokens", and tokens are not cards. A Follower created by Farmlands is the former.

That being said, yes, you may do as you describe.

After paying for the ability on Farmlands, its effects create a Follower with a default Gold Cost of 0. If you're attaching it to a Samurai, you may then overpay this 0G with Imperial Artificer in order to trigger its card-cycling effect.

A player, 3 August 2009

Example scenario: Player 1 announces he is using Farmlands' limited action during the action phase and targets his samurai as the recipient of the farmlands follower. He bows Imperial Artificer to pay for the cost of farmlands. Will Imperial Artificer's trait trigger, because the action on farmlands created a follower?

If so, Player 2 sees this happen than wished he ran those cards. lol.

Imperial Artificer: Bow this card: Produce 2 Gold. If this pays for a Follower or Item attaching to a Samurai, you may draw a card, then discard a card.

Farmlands: Limited: Pay 2 Gold: Create a 1F Follower and attach it to your target Personality.

Thanks!

Alex Jones (rules official), 3 August 2009

Example scenario: Player 1 announces he is using Farmlands' limited action during the action phase and targets his samurai as the recipient of the farmlands follower. He bows Imperial Artificer to pay for the cost of farmlands. Will Imperial Artificer's trait trigger, because the action on farmlands created a follower?

If so, Player 2 sees this happen than wished he ran those cards. lol.

Imperial Artificer: Bow this card: Produce 2 Gold. If this pays for a Follower or Item attaching to a Samurai, you may draw a card, then discard a card.

Farmlands: Limited: Pay 2 Gold: Create a 1F Follower and attach it to your target Personality.

Thanks!

No. However...

There are two costs involved here. One is the cost of the Farmlands' ability, "Pay 2 Gold," and as the cost of an ability, rather than the cost of a card, Imperial Artificer does nothing beyond producing 2g. The other cost is that of the created Follower, which, like all Followers, has a cost: in this case 0 Gold. You may overpay this gold cost, producing, say, 2 Gold when none is required, and if you use an Imperial Artificer to produce this, the rest of Imperial Artificer's trait applies, and you may draw and discard. Note that you must still pay the cost of the action as well.

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 3 August 2009

This exact same question -- with the exact same thread title! -- was only asked 10 days ago. (The threads are now merged.) So now might be a good time for a...

Mod reminder: You can often get your question answered faster by searching the forum before posting. See upper right corner of the page. Thanks!

A player, 3 August 2009

regarding this topic viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77808

do you not declare targets, pay costs, and then resolve effects of actions? for example personality X is getting a farmlands token. I pay 2 gold for the action. wouldn't you have to overpay at that time? because you have already declared targets, already paid the costs, so wouldn't the attaching of the follower already occur, or is there a really quick in between step right before the follower attaches where I can use imperial artificer to produce gold, even though the follower is still coming from an action?

so would imperial artificer's cycling effect also work if I were to "overpay" for the follower actions, of course right before the attaching of the item/follower were to occur?

Daidoji Yaichiro Reaction: After the resolution of a Battle action that Yaichiro performed: Either create a 2F Follower and attach it to him, or move him to a battlefield.

Doji Hariya Limited: Discard a card: Create a +2F Weapon and attach it to Hariya.

Akodo Shigetoshi (Experienced 2) Reaction: After Shigetoshi enters play: Create a 2F Follower and attach it to a target Personality.

Mirumoto Kei (Experienced 2) After Kei enters play: You may create a +2F/+1C Weapon Item and attach it to your target Personality.

Phantom Blade Kata "Spirit Limited: Discard a card: Create a +2F Spirit • Weapon Item and attach it to your target Personality."

We Stand Ready Limited: Target your Scout, and bow him unless he is Crab Clan: Target a province. After each time one of your units assigns to its battlefield this turn, create a 0F Follower card and attach it to its Personality.

A player, 3 August 2009

As my esteemed colleague have already explained several times in details above, when an effect creates an attachment card and attaches it to a Personality, the action's player must follow the usual sequence to put it into play (see Card types, Using attachments), which involves paying the created card's Gold cost of zero that may be overpaid by Imperial Artificer in order to use its cycling effect if the created card is a Follower or Item attaching to a Samurai.

If such an effect comes from action with a Gold cost (e.g. Farmlands), paying this action's Gold cost with Imperial Artificer does not meet the condition to draw then discard a card thanks to the Holding's trait, because this is paying for an action, not for the attachment itself.

This special use of Imperial Artificer is available for any action that creates a Follower or Item card and attaches it to a Samurai, like all those you suggested.

A player, 30 August 2009

I have a follower card in my hand with a base gold cost of 0. It's the action phase during my turn. I use Equip to attach said follower to my personality. Per the rules regarding Gold Production, may I choose to overpay for this follower's gold cost by bowing my Imperial Artificer, thus triggering Imperial Artificer's trait?

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 30 August 2009

I have a follower card in my hand with a base gold cost of 0. It's the action phase during my turn. I use Equip to attach said follower to my personality. Per the rules regarding Gold Production, may I choose to overpay for this follower's gold cost by bowing my Imperial Artificer, thus triggering Imperial Artificer's trait?

Yes, as explained previously in this (now merged) thread. Searching the forum would have answered this faster. A very similar question is in the FAQ.

http://rules.l5r.com/CE_FAQ#Can_I_draw_ ... s_token.3F

A player, 2 September 2009

This question seems stupid, but warrants asking. If I pay for the action on Farmlands (not with Imperial Artificer) may I then overpay for the 0 gold cost token I'm equipping with an Imperial Artificer and use its cycling ability?

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 2 September 2009

If I pay for the action on Farmlands (not with Imperial Artificer) may I then overpay for the 0 gold cost token I'm equipping with an Imperial Artificer and use its cycling ability?

http://rules.l5r.com/CE_FAQ#Can_I_draw_ ... s_token.3F: "(O)nce you have paid for the action, you are allowed to overpay the token Follower’s zero gold cost using Imperial Artificer and gain its benefits that way."