Encircled Terrain vs. The Height of Courage

L5R CCG Rules board, 6 July 2009 to 4 August 2009

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 6 July 2009

If I use The Height of Courage on one of my personalities being moved out of the battle from Encircled Terrain, do I:

Play The Height of Courage when the terrain enters play or, play The Height of Courage during battle resolution while resolving terrain effects or, play The Height of Courage at any time while the terrain remains in play.

The Height of Courage relevant ability: Reaction: Before the resolution of another player's action: Choose one of your personalities. Negate his movement from the action's effects.

Encircled Terrain: Terrain Battle: Before this battle’s resolution, the Attacker and Defender, in the order of your choice, each choose one of their units at the current battlefield. Move all other units there home.

Thank you.

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 6 July 2009

If I use The Height of Courage on one of my personalities being moved out of the battle from Encircled Terrain, do I:

Play The Height of Courage when the terrain enters play or, play The Height of Courage during battle resolution while resolving terrain effects or, play The Height of Courage at any time while the terrain remains in play.

The Height of Courage relevant ability: Reaction: Before the resolution of another player's action: Choose one of your personalities. Negate his movement from the action's effects.

Encircled Terrain: Terrain Battle: Before this battle’s resolution, the Attacker and Defender, in the order of your choice, each choose one of their units at the current battlefield. Move all other units there home.

Thank you.

EDIT: This ruling was incorrect, please see ruling below

Dan Jacobson (rules official), 6 July 2009

If I use The Height of Courage on one of my personalities being moved out of the battle from Encircled Terrain, do I:

Play The Height of Courage when the terrain enters play or, play The Height of Courage during battle resolution while resolving terrain effects or, play The Height of Courage at any time while the terrain remains in play.

The Height of Courage relevant ability: Reaction: Before the resolution of another player's action: Choose one of your personalities. Negate his movement from the action's effects.

Encircled Terrain: Terrain Battle: Before this battle’s resolution, the Attacker and Defender, in the order of your choice, each choose one of their units at the current battlefield. Move all other units there home.

Thank you.

A) Opponent announces Encircled Terrain B) Opponent Pays Costs (none) B1) You play The Height of Courage C) Encircled Terrain enters play.

A player, 7 July 2009

A) Opponent announces Encircled Terrain B) Opponent Pays Costs (none) B1) You play The Height of Courage C) Encircled Terrain enters play.

Encircled Terrain Terrain Battle: Before this battle’s resolution, the Attacker and Defender, in the order of your choice, each choose one of their units at the current battlefield. Move all other units there home. Gold 0 Focus 1

The Height of Courage Reaction: Before the resolution of another player's action: Choose one of your personalities. Negate his movement from the action's effects. Battle: Give your target Personality and each of his Followers +1F. Gold 0 Focus 2

Based on the wordinging of the cards Encircled Terrain does not resolve until battle resolution. Height of courage reacts to the actions resolution, so wouldn't you wait until right before battle resolution begins so that the action on Encircled Terrain can resolve?

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 7 July 2009

Based on the wordinging of the cards Encircled Terrain does not resolve until battle resolution.

Incorrect.

http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_R#Resolve: "An action or trait begins to resolve when its sequence of effect activation begins, assuming costs, targeting and conditions have been met. It stops resolving when its sequence of effect activation has ended, even if the application of some effects has been delayed."

Costs, targets, and conditions of Encircled Terrain have been met, so the action resolves immediately. It just happens that in this case, all of its effects are delayed.

A player, 9 July 2009

regarding this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77200

Does this mean that, because height of courage is reacting to the resolution of the action (and not an actual effect of an action), that I can react with height of courage when my opponent announces, say, Kami Unleashed? Is height of courage still considered to have resolved for the purposes of playing ring of void in the previously mentioned scenario? If the answer to the previous question is "no," if I respond with height of courage to my opponent's encircled terrain and follow that up by destroying my opponent's encircled terrain, is height of courage considered to have resolved for the purposes of playing ring of void?

A player, 4 August 2009

Does this mean that, because height of courage is reacting to the resolution of the action (and not an actual effect of an action), that I can react with height of courage when my opponent announces, say, Kami Unleashed?

Not when he announces it but before it resolves (card text), yes.

Is height of courage still considered to have resolved for the purposes of playing ring of void in the previously mentioned scenario?

No. It has resolved but it was not successful because none of Kami Unleashed's action's effects is able to move any of your Personalities; this is a new rule in Celestial Edition (see below). Ring of the Void looks for successful actions so this Height of Courage does not count.

Celestial Edition Glossary, Successful: Effects that prevent a specific kind of occurrence within a specific action do not count toward success if those effects cannot be produced by the action’s text, and if nothing happens to make the action itself produce those effects.

If the answer to the previous question is "no," if I respond with height of courage to my opponent's encircled terrain and follow that up by destroying my opponent's encircled terrain, is height of courage considered to have resolved for the purposes of playing ring of void?

Yes, this is a successful action because the Terrain's effects could have moved any of your Personalities when they would have applied. The fact that they never applied because the Terrain is destroyed is not relevant, and neither is the game state because of the Blind Cards Rule: for instance your Reaction still resolves successfully if you control only one Personalities at the current battlefield (or in play), or if you choose a Personality at home that has already been in an attacking army during battle resolution this Attack Phase. What matters is what the effects of action you are reacting to can do (can they move any of your Personalities?), not what they actually do or will do.