A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 5 January 2009
Hi there,
I am a little confused with the following two rules as read in the SE rulebook: The Naval rule, found on page 49, and the Perform rule, found on page 50. The situation I am confused about is this one: I have a Naval personality that has a battle action. I am attacking and would like to perform his action as the first action at a battle, as per the Naval rule. However, this personality's action has a cost that requires bowing/destroying a follower, and as per the Perform rules on page 50 this means the follower is considered performing the action (I assume BOTH the personality and the follower are performing this kind of action). This particular follower does not have Naval. The Naval rules state it must be performed by a Naval personality or one of his Naval followers. In this case the action is performed by a Naval personality AND a non-Naval Follower. Can I take the action?
The cards involved are Akodo Shigetoshi exp. and Ikoma Otemi exp. 3. with any given non-Naval Follower attached.
Thanks so much for clearing this up for me!
(PS, I would just like to add that my money is on 'yes you can' and that I cry when I lose money Either way, an explanation would be most welcome)
Dan Jacobson (rules official), 5 January 2009
Hi there,
I am a little confused with the following two rules as read in the SE rulebook: The Naval rule, found on page 49, and the Perform rule, found on page 50. The situation I am confused about is this one: I have a Naval personality that has a battle action. I am attacking and would like to perform his action as the first action at a battle, as per the Naval rule. However, this personality's action has a cost that requires bowing/destroying a follower, and as per the Perform rules on page 50 this means the follower is considered performing the action (I assume BOTH the personality and the follower are performing this kind of action). This particular follower does not have Naval. The Naval rules state it must be performed by a Naval personality or one of his Naval followers. In this case the action is performed by a Naval personality AND a non-Naval Follower. Can I take the action?
The cards involved are Akodo Shigetoshi exp. and Ikoma Otemi exp. 3. with any given non-Naval Follower attached.
Thanks so much for clearing this up for me!
(PS, I would just like to add that my money is on 'yes you can' and that I cry when I lose money Either way, an explanation would be most welcome)
In the Rules Glossary for "From" there is an exception (see here)
It states "Costs and effects of traits and abilities given to other cards, copied from other cards, or on created cards, come from the card they are currently on. "
The ability granted by Akodo Shigetoshi experienced is on Ikoma Otemi Experienced 3.
Ikoma Otemi Experienced 3 performs that granted action. The follower (in this case) does not.
He can therefore use it via the action granted by his Naval Keyword.
A player, 5 January 2009
This is in reference to http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=73000
Part of of your confusion, Asako Itoe, is how to determine Performing. See here http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_P-Q#Perform
The follower is not performing the action. Being bowed or destroyed as a cost is not part of determining who is performing the action. Targeting as a cost, bullet point three, is what you are thinking of and is not happening to the follower. As Kaiu Genji stated Ikoma Otemi is the only one performing the action because he is the only one who meets either of the three criteria that determines who performs the ability.
Alex Jones (rules official), 6 January 2009
The follower is not performing the action.
This is true, but it's actually irrelevant.
The Naval Reaction is performed by a Personality; the subsequent first Battle action must be performed by that Personality or one of his Followers. However, the Naval Reaction places no restrictions on any other performing cards, so they need not be Naval: In cases where multiple cards perform an action, only one need be Naval.
This is, if a Naval Personality were to have an action that targeted one of his Followers in the constraints block, and was thus also performed by the Follower, that Personality would still be able to use that action as the "Naval Battle action."