Akuma no Oni, Phial of Poison and Supply Outpost

L5R CCG Rules board, 10 October 2008 to 11 October 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 10 October 2008

If I have Supply Outpost (unbowed and in play), and desire to buy Akuma no Oni from one of my provinces and have Phial of Poison in my hand, can I bring in Akuma no Oni and choose the order of the triggered traits such that I trigger the supply outpost first attach phial of poison to Akuma no Oni, my question is what happens now? Do i still lose a province due to Akuma no Oni's trait since I choose to resolve the trait after the supply outpost or does the trait get negated by the phial of poison? Thanks.

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 10 October 2008

If I have Supply Outpost (unbowed and in play), and desire to buy Akuma no Oni from one of my provinces and have Phial of Poison in my hand, can I bring in Akuma no Oni and choose the order of the triggered traits such that I trigger the supply outpost first attach phial of poison to Akuma no Oni?

No. Supply Outpost's attachment effect is a delayed effect, not a triggered trait. You cannot choose the order because a delayed effect ALWAYS occurs before a triggered trait (Citation).

...my question is what happens now? Do i still lose a province due to Akuma no Oni's trait since I choose to resolve the trait after the supply outpost or does the trait get negated by the phial of poison? Thanks.

Again, you're not choosing between Akuma's trait and the Outpost's effect; the latter will always occur first. But, if you do choose to attach Phial of Poison (you could choose to attach something different or nothing at all, due to Supply Outpost's "may" wording), then Akuma's traits would be removed before they could trigger, and your Province would be saved.

A player, 11 October 2008

Just for official confirmation, this (supply outpost + phial of poison) also removes any "Lose X honor" or other 'entering play' traits on personalities before they are considered to enter play, correct?

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 11 October 2008

Just for official confirmation, this (supply outpost + phial of poison) also removes any "Lose X honor" or other 'entering play' traits on personalities before they are considered to enter play, correct?

Well, it is technically AFTER they've entered play, not before.

But, the answer is still "Yes" to this:

Supply Outpost's delayed effect will always occur before triggered traits. So, if you use it to attach a Phial of Poison, you will remove all a Personality's traits (in Akuma no Oni's case, his triggered Honor Loss, his triggered province destruction, his triggered double-province kill, AND his bowing and targeting restrictions) before they can trigger. So, the ones triggered after entering play won't, as per:

http://rules.l5r.com/Timing: "The order of resolution means that effects that come first, due to the above order or the active player’s decision, can negate, alter or render irrelevant effects that come later."