A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 1 October 2008
According to the SE rulebook, you must always pay the cost of an action if you are able to.
My opponent attacks me with Bayushi Tsimaru (Experienced) who has used his reaction once this turn. I defend with personality X. My opponent uses Sneak Attack and bows Personality X as his first action. I attempt to send my personality home with Surprising Resistance. My opponent negates my movement home. At this point, the cost has been negated, but I can still legally pay it.
Do I:
1) discard my surprising resistance, as the action has failed
or
2) attempt to pay the cost again and successfully move my personality home, fulfilling Surprising Resistance cost and bowing my opponents' Tsimaru.
Basic question: under the rule, that to take an action, I must always pay costs, am I only allowed one chance to pay those costs, or as many as I can legally attempt to take under the rule of good faith?
[mod edit - added Bayushi Tsimaru's Experience level and the full title of Sneak Attack; please use complete card titles (and Experience levels if a a card has one) when asking questions. Thanks! - LH]
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 1 October 2008
According to the SE rulebook, you must always pay the cost of an action if you are able to.
Well, I'm not certain what the specific text in the rulebook is to which you're referring. Therefore, I can't say if the Comprehensive Online Rules are overruling that passage, clarifying it, or adding to it. But, the Comprehensive Rules say (emphases mine, of the important points):
http://rules.l5r.com/Costs_and_restrictions#Alterations_to_costs_and_payments: "If any specific payment of a cost is negated, delayed, or made impossible in the process of paying costs, the player paying the costs may use alternate available sources to pay that cost, or may choose not to pay the cost.
However, if the cost was a change to the state of something in the game, and the change was negated, delayed or made impossible, the same change to the same card may not then be used as an alternate payment."
My opponent attacks me with Bayushi Tsimaru (Experienced) who has used his reaction once this turn. I defend with personality X. My opponent uses Sneak Attack and bows Personality X as his first action. I attempt to send my personality home with Surprising Resistance. My opponent negates my movement home. At this point, the cost has been negated, but I can still legally pay it.
As it says in the second paragraph from the CR above, you can actually no longer legally pay the cost. So you:
A player, 2 October 2008
Ok, in accordance with this:http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=71126
Let's say I have the exact same situation. My opponent is attacking with Bayushi Tsimaru Experinced, who has used his ability once this turn and I defend with two personalities, X and Y. He plays sneak attack and uses his first action to bow both of my people.
I attempt to Surprsing Resistance with personality X, and my opponent negates the cost by negating the movement of personality X. Am I now allowed to attempt to pay the cost by moving personality Y home, or is the action lost forever?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 2 October 2008
Ok, in accordance with this:http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=71126
Let's say I have the exact same situation. My opponent is attacking with Bayushi Tsimaru Experinced, who has used his ability once this turn and I defend with two personalities, X and Y. He plays sneak attack and uses his first action to bow both of my people.
I attempt to Surprsing Resistance with personality X, and my opponent negates the cost by negating the movement of personality X. Am I now allowed to attempt to pay the cost by moving personality Y home, or is the action lost forever?
Sorry, your action still fizzles.
You've already targeted Personality X, so you must use him to pay Surprising Resistence's cost, as seen here.
Ironically, that link actually answers your first question, too! Really, the Search function of the forum is quite useful; if I wasn't obsessed with showing off how smartsy I am, I could've linked Marty Lund's answer in the first place and saved you the trouble of following up. Sorry about that.
A player, 3 October 2008
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=71126 I love knowing the ins and outs of rules, but this one confuses me a little If you have the choice of paying the cost of a card again if the first cost is negated (as long as you arent doing the same thing to the same card) Why cant you just send someone else home? Is there a clause in the rules that says once you target a personality for a cost, you cannot target a different personality to pay the cost?
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 3 October 2008
If you have the choice of paying the cost of a card again if the first cost is negated (as long as you arent doing the same thing to the same card) Why cant you just send someone else home? Is there a clause in the rules that says once you target a personality for a cost, you cannot target a different personality to pay the cost?
Not a clause, but the sequence that actions are done in. The action order is announce, target, pay, resolve. So you've already targeted -- you don't get to go back and pick a new target because something happened with costs. You're done targeting.
http://rules.l5r.com/Costs_and_restrict ... tory_costs: "If, due to interference from other effects, a mandatory cost cannot be paid at the point when it must be paid:
"No remaining costs need be paid, but costs already paid are not refunded.
"No effects of the action or trait resolve, and the ability or trait is considered to have been 'used.'
"If the cost was for a card to enter play, it is discarded."
This came came up a long while back with Stay your Blade: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=60461&p=773636, which is in the rulinsg for Stay Your Blade (http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_S#Stay_Your_Blade).
A player, 5 October 2008
In regatds to this question, assume that my opponent has a bayushi tsimaru XP at home who has used his ability once this turn. In battle I have a straightened unit. I attempt to play surprising resistance, and send the personality home as a cost. My opponent negates the movement. May I then bow to pay the cost? And if so, has his Tsimaru XP's ability still been used up?
Brook Cunningham (rules official), 5 October 2008
In regatds to this question, assume that my opponent has a bayushi tsimaru XP at home who has used his ability once this turn. In battle I have a[n] [unbowed] unit. I attempt to play surprising resistance, and send the personality home as a cost. My opponent negates the movement. May I then bow to pay the cost? And if so, has his Tsimaru XP's ability still been used up?
Yes, you may bow; the action's cost has two options.
Yes, Tsimaru's ability has been used. Paying via an alternate method does not "go back in time" and erase the other payment attempt from having occurred; you tried pay with movement, but it was negated, so you had to use an alternate method or choose to have the action fail.
I'd cite the CR, but all the relevant links are already above.