A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 10 June 2008
From Card features A Personality with Dragon Clan and Scorpion Clan does not have a different Clan alignment from a Personality with the Dragon Clan keyword alone. The two Personalities only have the same Clan alignment.
If I have a Personality with Dragon Clan and Scorpion Clan he (only) has the same alignment as a Personality with the Dragon Clan keyword alone Dragon/Scorpion == Dragon (for alignment)
Presumably: If I have a Personality with Dragon Clan and Scorpion Clan he (only) has the same alignment as a Personality with the Scorpion Clan keyword alone Dragon/Scorpion == Scorpion (for alignment)
Dragon == Dragon/Scorpion == Scorpion (for alignment)
simplified...
Dragon == Scorpion (for alignment)
Seems dumb, but I don't see why this isn't so without acknowledging that none of the personalities "only have the same Clan alignment" as the others.
I also don't see why this was put in to begin with when it is obviously false, a "black and white" cat is different than both an "all black" cat and a "black and brown" cat. The statement as written is equivalent to saying a "black and white" cat is different than a "black and brown" cat, but not a "plain black" cat (although a "plain black" cat is the same as both a "black and brown" cat and a "black and white" cat)!
Zen Faulkes (rules official), 10 June 2008
From Card features A Personality with Dragon Clan and Scorpion Clan does not have a different Clan alignment from a Personality with the Dragon Clan keyword alone. The two Personalities only have the same Clan alignment.
If I have a Personality with Dragon Clan and Scorpion Clan he (only) has the same alignment as a Personality with the Dragon Clan keyword alone Dragon/Scorpion == Dragon (for alignment)
Presumably: If I have a Personality with Dragon Clan and Scorpion Clan he (only) has the same alignment as a Personality with the Scorpion Clan keyword alone Dragon/Scorpion == Scorpion (for alignment)
Dragon == Dragon/Scorpion == Scorpion (for alignment)
simplified...
Dragon == Scorpion (for alignment)
Seems dumb, but I don't see why this isn't so without acknowledging that none of the personalities "only have the same Clan alignment" as the others.
I also don't see why this was put in to begin with when it is obviously false, a "black and white" cat is different than both an "all black" cat and a "black and brown" cat. The statement as written is equivalent to saying a "black and white" cat is different than a "black and brown" cat, but not a "plain black" cat (although a "plain black" cat is the same as both a "black and brown" cat and a "black and white" cat)!
Thanks for your input. The current ruling stands (http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Diff ... e_keywords), however.
Alex Jones (rules official), 11 June 2008
It's normally true that "A is the same as B" if and only if "A is not different to B". However, "has same the same Clan alignment as" and "has a different Clan alignment from" do not work the same way:
- If A has Dragon Clan and B is Unaligned, then neither "A has the same Clan alignment as B" nor "A has a different Clan alignment from B" is true.
- If A has Dragon Clan and Scorpion Clan, and B has Dragon Clan and Crane Clan, then both "A has the same Clan alignment as B" and "A has a different Clan alignment from B" are true.
So, while "is the same as" is an equivalence relation, don't expect "has same the same Clan alignment as" to obey the same rules. In particular, it's not transitive:
- If A has Dragon Clan, B has Dragon Clan and Crane Clan and C has Crane Clan, then "A has the same Clan alignment as B" and "B has the same Clan alignment as C" are true, but "A has the same Clan alignment as C" is false.
You can't use == as a symbol for "has the same Clan alignment as" and expect to get consistent answers.
Alex