A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 1 June 2008
Relevant card text: ==================================== Vision of P'an Ku Kiho Battle/Open: Target one of your unbowed Shugenja or Monk Personalities: Raise his Force, Chi or Personal Honor to the value of the same stat on another player's target non-Unique Personality. This bonus is permanent.
Yin and Yang Open: Show your hand (to all players): Target a Personality. He has a minimum Chi of 1 until after the turn ends. Give him -3F/-3C. ====================================
My question is regarding the amount of bonus that Vision of Pan'ku provides a personality who is under the effects of force penalties whose total is greater than his base force.
Example: Shiba Ujimitsu has 4f base I target him with three Yin and Yang resulting in a total penalty of -9f Adding his base plus penalties and bonuses totals -5. As per rules :: " A: Apply all current bonuses and penalties.
B: If the total is below 0, treat it as 0."
So we treat his force value as 0 Next, I set his force to that of a 4f personality. As per rules :: "Setting stats to a value: Various effects will set a stat to some particular value, such as effects that switch or copy stats. To set a stat to a value, give an appropriate bonus or penalty."
An "appropriate value" would be +9f. This would "set" his force to the targets. The end of the turn comes and the -9f goes away but the +9 was permanent. Combo and turn end with a 13f Shiba Ujimitsu.
This sequence is the intuitive way to play it, however there is an iffy interpretation.
If we "treat" his force to be 0 when the total is -5, is an appropriate value when setting his force not +4? Leaving Shiba Ujimitsu still at a lowly 0f(-1f)
I suppose the ambiguity is about what the rules "know"
Alex Jones (rules official), 2 June 2008
Relevant card text: ==================================== Vision of P'an Ku Kiho Battle/Open: Target one of your unbowed Shugenja or Monk Personalities: Raise his Force, Chi or Personal Honor to the value of the same stat on another player's target non-Unique Personality. This bonus is permanent.
Yin and Yang Open: Show your hand (to all players): Target a Personality. He has a minimum Chi of 1 until after the turn ends. Give him -3F/-3C. ====================================
My question is regarding the amount of bonus that Vision of Pan'ku provides a personality who is under the effects of force penalties whose total is greater than his base force.
Example: Shiba Ujimitsu has 4f base I target him with three Yin and Yang resulting in a total penalty of -9f Adding his base plus penalties and bonuses totals -5. As per rules :: " A: Apply all current bonuses and penalties.
B: If the total is below 0, treat it as 0."
So we treat his force value as 0 Next, I set his force to that of a 4f personality. As per rules :: "Setting stats to a value: Various effects will set a stat to some particular value, such as effects that switch or copy stats. To set a stat to a value, give an appropriate bonus or penalty."
An "appropriate value" would be +9f. This would "set" his force to the targets. The end of the turn comes and the -9f goes away but the +9 was permanent. Combo and turn end with a 13f Shiba Ujimitsu.
This sequence is the intuitive way to play it, however there is an iffy interpretation.
If we "treat" his force to be 0 when the total is -5, is an appropriate value when setting his force not +4? Leaving Shiba Ujimitsu still at a lowly 0f(-1f)
I suppose the ambiguity is about what the rules "know"
As you point out, a bonus of +4f is insufficient to raise his force to 4; a +9f bonus is what is "appropriate".