mirumoto kei exp

L5R CCG Rules board, 26 April 2008 to 28 April 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 26 April 2008

1. Let's say I issue a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) to some guy who is the elemental master and my opponent would like to use High Temple of Toshi Ranbo to redirect the duel to another one of his unique personality playing with determination and then with holding's ability. Is it legal for him to redirect the duel or ability on Mirumoto Kei exp prevent fim from doing that?

2. If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent prevent the death of his Personality playing Few Against Many?

3. If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent play Fortified Camp after his Personality is destroyed to attach one of its attachments?

thx

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 26 April 2008

1. Let's say I issue a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) to some guy who is the elemental master and my opponent would like to use High Temple of Toshi Ranbo to redirect the duel to another one of his unique personality playing with determination and then with holding's ability. Is it legal for him to redirect the duel or ability on Mirumoto Kei exp prevent fim from doing that?

2. If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent prevent the death of his Personality playing Few Against Many?

3. If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent play Fortified Camp after his Personality is destroyed to attach one of its attachments?

thx

1. No, High Temple could not change Kei's target*. The "When an action would target..." timing of High Temple's Reaction occurs "...while this action is being targeted..." (Kei's text).

2. No. (Do not understimate the power of the Search function. )

3. No. The duel ending in Step J (and clean-up effects during) concretely signifies the end of the trigger window for Reactions after the Personality's destuction from the duel, but it all still falls within the time that Kei's action is resolving. (Fixed April 28 2008).

*Friendly reminder: There is no such term as "Redirection" in Samurai Edition; Redirection is to Samurai Edition as spoons are to the Matrix.

A player, 26 April 2008

Referring to this.

The original post asked: If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent prevent the death of his Personality playing Few Against Many?" The answer was "No."

The original post asked: "If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent play Fortified Camp after his Personality is destroyed to attach one of its attachments?" The answer was "Yes. Kei's action is certainly done resolving after the Personality is destroyed (the timing for Camp)."

Few Against Many reacts "Before another player’s card’s effect destroys one of your Personalities." Fortified Camp reacts "After another player’s action destroys one of your attachment cards or it’s Personality." Mirumoto Kei's ability provides that "Other players can not take Reactions while this action is being targeted and resolved."

The death of a personality from Kei's ability occurs in Step I(2) of the duel. Few Against Many's reaction is taken "before" the death - this point is, according to the answer, still during the resolution of Kei's action and, thus, the reaction may not be taken because of Kei's ability.

Any attachments on the personality being destroyed are destroyed "when" the personality is destroyed. So Fortified Camp's reaction seems to be, timing-wise, occuring "after" the personality's death. This point is, according to the answer, after Kei's ability has resolved. Is this accurate?

If so, I was wondering if you could explain why this timing point (the death of the losing personality in Step I(2)) separates when it still is or is not in the resolution of Kei's action? What if there are additional consequences of the duel that are yet to be applied in Duel Steps I(3), (4), (5)? Immediately after the death of the personality still appears to be before Step J has begun - why does this not render "after" Step I(2) still during the resolution of the duel? Finally, is there a distinction between the resolution of the duel and the resolution of Kei's action? I always read these as two separate things - you play the action, the action creates a duel, the duel happens and resolves, and then the original action finishes resolving.

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 26 April 2008

Referring to this.

The original post asked: If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent prevent the death of his Personality playing Few Against Many?" The answer was "No."

The original post asked: "If I win a duel with Mirumoto Kei exp (from her own ability) , can the opponent play Fortified Camp after his Personality is destroyed to attach one of its attachments?" The answer was "Yes. Kei's action is certainly done resolving after the Personality is destroyed (the timing for Camp)."

Few Against Many reacts "Before another player’s card’s effect destroys one of your Personalities." Fortified Camp reacts "After another player’s action destroys one of your attachment cards or it’s Personality." Mirumoto Kei's ability provides that "Other players can not take Reactions while this action is being targeted and resolved."

The death of a personality from Kei's ability occurs in Step I(2) of the duel. Few Against Many's reaction is taken "before" the death - this point is, according to the answer, still during the resolution of Kei's action and, thus, the reaction may not be taken because of Kei's ability.

Any attachments on the personality being destroyed are destroyed "when" the personality is destroyed. So Fortified Camp's reaction seems to be, timing-wise, occuring "after" the personality's death. This point is, according to the answer, after Kei's ability has resolved. Is this accurate?

If so, I was wondering if you could explain why this timing point (the death of the losing personality in Step I(2)) separates when it still is or is not in the resolution of Kei's action? What if there are additional consequences of the duel that are yet to be applied in Duel Steps I(3), (4), (5)? Immediately after the death of the personality still appears to be before Step J has begun - why does this not render "after" Step I(2) still during the resolution of the duel? Finally, is there a distinction between the resolution of the duel and the resolution of Kei's action? I always read these as two separate things - you play the action, the action creates a duel, the duel happens and resolves, and then the original action finishes resolving.

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

Okay, I'll admit it wasn't as "certain" as I said.

Edit: Fixed, see above.

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 28 April 2008

The answer to question 3 of the OP in my first reply has been changed.

Sorry about the confusion over Reaction trigger windows and duel/action resolution timing.