My opponent is attacking me with an army that includes Daidoji Akagi basic. I defend, and on his opportunity to act he uses Akagis 'ranged 2 attack' ability. He passes his react, then on my opportunity to react, I play Outer Walls to reduce the RA by 2. He then claims he can use akagi's react to increase his RA, but I disagreed, claiming he already had his opportunity to react, and a reaction at this point would have to be a legal reaction to Outer Walls. Who is correct?
Daidoji Akagi/outer walls
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
My opponent is attacking me with an army that includes Daidoji Akagi basic. I defend, and on his opportunity to act he uses Akagis 'ranged 2 attack' ability. He passes his react, then on my opportunity to react, I play Outer Walls to reduce the RA by 2. He then claims he can use akagi's react to increase his RA, but I disagreed, claiming he already had his opportunity to react, and a reaction at this point would have to be a legal reaction to Outer Walls. Who is correct?
In general, Reactions continue to go around the table until everyone passes.
http://rules.l5r.com/Timing: "Reactions may now be taken following an action round procedure. Starting with the active player, each player in turn order has the option to take a Reaction to the trigger or pass. When all players pass consecutively, no more Reactions to that occurrence of the trigger may be taken."
In this post viewtopic.php?f=59&t=67400 , Zen quotes http://rules.l5r.com/Timing
However, after reading this page that Zen linked, I saw this passage near the top of the page:
Actions and triggered traits each have a distinct time they start; two actions or triggered traits will never start at the same time.
Once an action or triggered trait starts, apply all its costs, targeting, and effects in sequence before proceeding, even if another action or triggered trait is under way.
Doesnt this mean youll resolve all of Akagi's reaction before proceeding to another reaction?
In this post viewtopic.php?f=59&t=67400 , Zen quotes http://rules.l5r.com/Timing
However, after reading this page that Zen linked, I saw this passage near the top of the page:
Actions and triggered traits each have a distinct time they start; two actions or triggered traits will never start at the same time.
Once an action or triggered trait starts, apply all its costs, targeting, and effects in sequence before proceeding, even if another action or triggered trait is under way.
Doesnt this mean youll resolve all of Akagi's reaction before proceeding to another reaction?
Yes, that's what the passage you read means.
But my affirmative answer here doesn't contradict anything Zen said. You appear to me to be asking in the thought that it will, but I can't answer you any better unless I know why you think that. And I'm sorry, I don't see what impact Akagi's Reaction resolving fully or not has on the example given in the OP.
In the question asked, the OP was asking if Daidoji Akagi's chance to react had already passed, since according to the passage Zen quoted:
Actions and triggered traits each have a distinct time they start; two actions or triggered traits will never start at the same time.
Once an action or triggered trait starts, apply all its costs, targeting, and effects in sequence before proceeding, even if another action or triggered trait is under way.
That passage implies that you resolve Akagi's reaction before resolving the Outer Walls reaction. Zens response of:
In general, Reactions continue to go around the table until everyone passes.
http://rules.l5r.com/Timing: "Reactions may now be taken following an action round procedure. Starting with the active player, each player in turn order has the option to take a Reaction to the trigger or pass. When all players pass consecutively, no more Reactions to that occurrence of the trigger may be taken."
seems to contradict the original section I quoted. I dont see how you can 'apply all its costs, targeting, and effects in sequence before proceeding', while at the same time allowing reactions to continue around the table until everyone passes. Akagi's chance to react had already been passed on.
Actions and triggered traits each have a distinct time they start; two actions or triggered traits will never start at the same time.
Once an action or triggered trait starts, apply all its costs, targeting, and effects in sequence before proceeding, even if another action or triggered trait is under way.
That passage implies that you resolve Akagi's reaction before resolving the Outer Walls reaction.
I do not understand how that would be implied at all.
The first sentence quoted says nothing is simultaneous, which does not address the order of Reactions. (The Reaction order is handled by the sequence described at http://rules.l5r.com/Timing).
The second sentence quoted says once you start an action, you finish it.
Daidoji Akagi's Reaction is triggered, "After you target a Ranged Attack from an action...". Outer Walls' Reaction is triggered, "After a Ranged Attack is targeted...". Both have the same trigger: after a Ranged Attack is targeted.
The sequence is:
Ranged Attack targeted.
Active player has first opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. Active player passes.
Next player in turn order has the opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. Outer Walls is played and resolves, decreasing Ranged Attack strength.
The next player in turn order has another opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. The opportunity to play Reactions to targeting of the the Ranged Attack has not expired, because not all players have passed consecutively. The active player uses Daidoji Akagi's ability and resolves, increasing Ranged Attack strength.
The next player in turn order has another opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. In this case, she passes (although she could play another Outer Walls, say, if she had one in hand.)
The next player in turn order (i.e., the active player) has the next opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. He passes (although he could, say, use another copy of Daidoji Akagi if he had one).
All players have now passed consecutively on Reactions. The Ranged Attack action moves on to the cost payment step.
No Reactions occurred simultaneously (in accord with the first quoted sentence).
No Reactions were left unfinished (in accord with the second quoted sentence).
This question is a follow up from this post:
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=67400
I do not understand how that would be implied at all.
The first sentence quoted says nothing is simultaneous, which does not address the order of Reactions. (The Reaction order is handled by the sequence described at http://rules.l5r.com/Timing).
The second sentence quoted says once you start an action, you finish it.
Daidoji Akagi's Reaction is triggered, "After you target a Ranged Attack from an action...". Outer Walls' Reaction is triggered, "After a Ranged Attack is targeted...". Both have the same trigger: after a Ranged Attack is targeted.
The sequence is:
Ranged Attack targeted.
Active player has first opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. Active player passes.
Next player in turn order has the opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. Outer Walls is played and resolves, decreasing Ranged Attack strength.
The next player in turn order has another opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. The opportunity to play Reactions to targeting of the the Ranged Attack has not expired, because not all players have passed consecutively. The active player uses Daidoji Akagi's ability and resolves, increasing Ranged Attack strength.
The next player in turn order has another opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. In this case, she passes (although she could play another Outer Walls, say, if she had one in hand.)
The next player in turn order (i.e., the active player) has the next opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. He passes (although he could, say, use another copy of Daidoji Akagi if he had one).
All players have now passed consecutively on Reactions. The Ranged Attack action moves on to the cost payment step.
No Reactions occurred simultaneously (in accord with the first quoted sentence).
No Reactions were left unfinished (in accord with the second quoted sentence).
The next player in turn order (i.e., the active player) has the next opportunity to play a Reaction in response to targeting. He passes (although he could, say, use another copy of Daidoji Akagi if he had one).
So in this example if I had 3x Daidoji Agaki in an army and used the ranged attack on Akagi-A, I could use the reaction on Akagi-A, Akagi-B, and Akagi-C to increase the ranged attack strength of a ranged attack that Akagi-A performed?
I thought Akagi's reaction only referenced himself. I didn't think other Akagis could react to another Akagi's ranged attack.
So in this example if I had 3x Daidoji Agaki in an army and used the ranged attack on Akagi-A, I could use the reaction on Akagi-A, Akagi-B, and Akagi-C to increase the ranged attack strength of a ranged attack that Akagi-A performed?
No you can only take the Reaction from Akagi-A for the reason you noted: Daidoji Akagi's Reaction only references himself; see Special wording rules, Referring to things (quoted below, emphasis added).
In Zen's sentence you highlighted, you may replace it by Arrows from the Woods for example. With this one exception, Zen's detailed explanations are perfectly correct about how to play all those different Reactions according to their respective timing.
References to the card’s title, or to a shortened form of the title in the case of Personalities (such as “Mareshi” as short for “Mirumoto Mareshi”), refer to the card itself. Such references by title refer only to that copy of the card, not to any other copy that might exist, unless they use wording such as “a Mirumoto Mareshi” or “a copy of Mirumoto Mareshi.”