Standing fast and tokens

L5R CCG Rules board, 20 March 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 20 March 2008

I was playing a game and used Standing Fast on a personality with three 0 cost follower tokens. I was told there was a change to the rules saying that because tokens are not concidered cards, Standing Fast doesnt destroy the tokens. Is that the correct ruling? Are there cards with 0 gold cost?

Standing Fast Text:

Battle: Target one of your unbowed Samurai or Berserker Personalities: Target up to two units opposing him with a combined total Gold Cost less than his unit's total Gold Cost. Bow them. Destroy any cards in those units with 0 Gold Cost.

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 20 March 2008

I was playing a game and used Standing Fast on a personality with three 0 cost follower tokens....

Ah, there's your misconception right there (emphasis mine). Because:

http://rules.l5r.com/Non-card_physical_game_elements#Tokens:"Tokens are not cards. In Samurai Edition, follower, item or personality tokens cannot be created; cards are created instead."

And just in case you were playing Legacy Format (or "Open", as some call it) with older cards that say they create "token" Followers, there is also this:

http://rules.l5r.com/Legacy_Format#Older_Cards:"Things that say they create tokens with a card type (such as “Follower tokens”) create cards of that type instead of tokens."

To quote Yoda, "You must un-learn what you have learned."

Created cards are, as of Samurai Edition, never tokens. Nothing is a token unless it says it's a token, and I guarantee no Samurai-legal most-recent-printing of any card will create a card-type (Follower, Item, etc.) and say it's a token.

Also, while it is correct Standing Fast will not destroy tokens because (as seen above) they are not cards, it WILL destroy created cards without a stated Gold Cost stat:

http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Created_cards: "Any stats of a created card not specified by that effect, but that a card of that type normally has, have a base value of 0."