Swift Counterattack vs Strike Chain

L5R CCG Rules board, 5 March 2008 to 10 March 2008

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 5 March 2008

When looking at this I am unsure how to define "additional action". Is it simply a matter of wording eg "take an additional action", or a rule that says, anything that lets you take another action is considered an additional action? Are reactions counted as additional actions, if they are letting you take another action? If the additional action is negated, it should negate the entire effect of the action, correct?

Swift Counterattack Cost:0 Focus:2 Open: Give a target Personality and each of his Followers +1F. Reaction: Before a player resolves a Battle action that was taken as an additional action: Negate the action's effects.

Strike the Center Cost:0 Focus:3 You can only play one Strike the Center per battle. Kiho Reaction: After you resolve a Strike the Summit, target the Monk who performed it: Bow a target unit opposing him. You may search your deck for a Strike the Base, show it, and put it in your hand. Kiho Battle: Bow one of your Rings and one of your target Monks: Bow a target unit opposing him with less Force.

Martin Lund (rules official), 5 March 2008

When looking at this I am unsure how to define "additional action". Is it simply a matter of wording eg "take an additional action", or a rule that says, anything that lets you take another action is considered an additional action? Are reactions counted as additional actions, if they are letting you take another action? If the additional action is negated, it should negate the entire effect of the action, correct?

Swift Counterattack Cost:0 Focus:2 Open: Give a target Personality and each of his Followers +1F. Reaction: Before a player resolves a Battle action that was taken as an additional action: Negate the action's effects.

Strike the Center Cost:0 Focus:3 You can only play one Strike the Center per battle. Kiho Reaction: After you resolve a Strike the Summit, target the Monk who performed it: Bow a target unit opposing him. You may search your deck for a Strike the Base, show it, and put it in your hand. Kiho Battle: Bow one of your Rings and one of your target Monks: Bow a target unit opposing him with less Force.

You are looking for the phrase "additional action." Don't confuse taking an "additional action" with taking a Reaction.

On top of which, Swift Counterattack says, "Reaction: Before a player resolves a Battle action" while Strike at the Center's "follow up" in chaining the Strike cards is a Reaction, not a Battle action.

A player, 10 March 2008

So, my opponent plays.... Hundred hand strike. For his Additional Battle action, he plays strike at the summit. If I react with Swift counterattack, does it cancel the whole strike chain? Or can he still react and search for Strike at the center as if the Strike at the summit had gone off normally?

Brook Cunningham (rules official), 10 March 2008

So, my opponent plays.... Hundred hand strike. For his Additional Battle action, he plays strike at the summit. If I react with Swift counterattack, does it cancel the whole strike chain? Or can he still react and search for Strike at the center as if the Strike at the summit had gone off normally?

Shosuro Rat asks, "So, my opponent plays.... Hundred hand strike. For his Additional Battle action, he plays strike at the summit. If I react with Swift counterattack, does it cancel the whole strike chain? Or can he still react and search for Strike at the center as if the Strike at the summit had gone off normally?"

And I answer:

Swift Counterattack negates all the effects of the additional Battle action. The last effect of Strike the Summit is to search for Strike the Center, so that would also be negated along with all Strike the Summit's other effects.

However, if you already had Strike the Center in your hand, you would still have a valid trigger for its Reaction because Strike the Summit has resolved even though all its effects were negated.

http://rules.l5r.com/Abilities_and_actions#D._Action_resolves: "An action resolves even if all its effects are negated or otherwise do not occur."