In reference to this thread about The Maw's Grave and Seiden Sanzo (and this unanswered one), why does the delayed effect from The Maw's Grave manage to remove from the game the once more dead personality that was brought back into play by its immediate effect and destroyed by Seiden Sanzo sooner that turn ?
According to what I - probably wrongly - understand from the rules, I'd like to underline some excepts from two chapters: 'Effects in and out of play' and 'Implications of in and out of play'.
_ Since yesterday a rule has been extended from ongoing effects to delayed ones: "delayed effects that affect a card in play persist when the card leaves play". OK but how can a delayed effect affect a card before the time when it should be applied ? If an effect is activated but delayed, it doesn't affect anything until it is applied, does it ? If this delayed effect is considered to affect this personality before it is applied, what makes us clearly know that please, and in which ways does it affect her ?
Just before that sentence, 'Effects in and out of play' chapter also reads: "When an effect begins, it only applies to cards that are either in play, or in a temporary focusing, entering-play, or resolution area, unless: the effect specifies an out of play area, is triggered by a card entering an out of play area (such as, being destroyed or discarded from the hand), or uses wording such as “all Samurai in and out of play”." (emphasis mine). Yesterday some rules were added or changed to introduce the notion of 'activation of effects' which happens when an action resolves, and that time is different of the time when an effect is applied if this effect is delayed. My question is: when does a delayed effect begin ? when it is activated or when it is applied ? My interpretation of Mr Faulkes's previous answer, leads me to suppose that a delayed effect begins as soon as it is activated, therefore it may be allowed to affect a card that has left play before it applies. However please note that in the last sentence I quoted, the words "begins" and "applies" are so close to each other that a foreign reader like me, who doesn't speak English very well, could be lead to believe a delayed effect doesn't begin until it is actually applied, which would mean he could no longer be applied to a card it is supposed to affect, if that card has left play before this effect is applied to it...
_ 'Implications of in and out of play' chapter reads: "Cards that are not in play [...] have the following limitations [...] They are not affected by effects" (emphasis mine). Since Seiden Sanzo destroys the undead personality before The Maw's Grave attempts to remove it from the game, how can The Maw's Grave manage to remove it from the game once she is in the discard pile ? I agree she "reminds" that she should be removed from the game but I overconfidently believe she can't leave the game at that time because she's dead again therefore she is no longer affected by effects such as the delayed one from The Maw's Grave, isn't she ?
It also reads: "The above limitations are overridden when a reference is made to cards in an out-of-play area, or an effect that would normally put a card in an out-of-play area" but the delayed effect of the open action on The Maw's Grave, doesn't make any reference to cards in an out-of-play area (the personality is supposed to be in play when it is activated). I acknowledge it normally puts a card in an out-of-play area but it seems to me that it doesn't specifically overrids the limitation which says out-of-play cards are unaffected by effects, does it ?
I am aware I am surely misunderstanding these rules, due to deep confusion and bad translation, but I would highly appreciate just a bit more explanations about them in this context, please.
Thanks for this too long reading, a pity I remain unable to summarize my thoughts better (I keep on trying).