Denounced on Stage vs. Seppuku

L5R CCG Rules board, 13 August 2007

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 13 August 2007

Denounced on Stage Political Limited: Target one of your Artisan or Courtier Personalities: For the rest of the turn, before each time a player loses Honor, increase the loss by 1.

Seppuku Reaction: Any number of times per turn, before you lose Honor from an action that targeted or was performed by one of your Courtier or Samurai Personalities: He commits seppuku. If the seppuku destroyed him, reduce the Honor loss to one.

Situation:

I have a dishonored samurai. My opponent plays Denounced on Stage. My opponent targets my samurai with Shosuro Uyeda. I have my samurai commit seppuku

Since both actions (Denounced and Seppuku) have the same trigger what happens first?

A) the loss reduced to 1 and then denounced on stage increases it by 1 so I lose 2 B) Denounced on Stage increase the loss and then it is reduced to 1 so I lose 1 C) the active player decides which happens first

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 13 August 2007

Since both actions (Denounced and Seppuku) have the same trigger what happens first?

Actually, they don't.

http://rules.l5r.com/Timing (some snippage):

"A. Apply any ongoing or continuous effects, such as "can not" wording, that negate or otherwise modify the occurrence that defines the trigger.

"B. If the point in time is a 'when' timing, continuous conditional effects that depend on the triggering occurrence take effect now."

"C. Apply any triggered rulebook effects that are not part of actions, such as rehonoring Personalities instead of Honor gain. The active player decides the order in which more than one of these effects apply.

"D. Apply any delayed effects that resolved previously and are timed to the trigger(.)" That's Denounced on Stage.

"E. Apply any triggered traits on cards. The active player decides the order in which more than one of these effects apply."

"F. Reactions may now be taken following an action round procedure." That's Seppuku.