Utter Defeat and honor gains

L5R CCG Rules board, 9 August 2007

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 9 August 2007

Hi. I need you to enlighten me in what happens in the following situations:

During a game, I somehow manage to play Utter Defeat, thus my opponent has a dishonored personality that cannot be rehonored or commit seppuku. What would happen if:

a) that personality performs any action that results in an honor gain? (eg. if he's a courtier and bows as a cost for Governor's Court action, or if he's a monk and bows as a cost for Temple to Shinsei action, etc.) Will the honor gain happen or will it be negated by the ongoing effect of Utter Defeat?

b) that personality is in an army that wins a battle where one of my personalities is destroyed during resolution? Will again the honor gain happen?

c) Same situation as (b), but with more dishonored personalities in the winning army. Will the rest dishonored personalities be rehonored?

Thanks in advance

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 9 August 2007

I somehow manage to play Utter Defeat, thus my opponent has a dishonored personality that cannot be rehonored or commit seppuku. What would happen if that personality performs any action that results in an honor gain?

Honor gains are negated, because the Personality cannot be rehonored "instead." Glossary: "If the old Y is negated, or fails to happen for a reason other than negation ('do not' wording, absence of relevant game elements), the new X doesn't happen."

On: Utter Defeat