A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 31 October 2006
In response to:
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48700&highlight=pan
Pg. 46 Lotus Edition Rulebook
It is possible to set a stat directly to a particular number. This works by applying whatever bonus or penalty is required to achieve the new value.
...Copying a stat works exactly like setting it to a particular number.
Pg. 22 Stats
Many cards have one or more numeric stats. Any reference to a value on a card refers to its current value unless the ¨base¨or ¨printed¨value is requested.
P´an Ku
...Open: Once per turn, target another Personality. Permanently copy the target´s printed chi.
Sculpting Flesh
Maho Limited: Bow this Shugenja, who must be a Bloodspeaker, and destroy a Personality you control and own: Lose 3 Honor. Create a Shadowlands Nonhuman Goblin Personality card in your home. Set its printed Force and Chi to any values that do not total more than the destroyed Personality's Gold cost.
Tashrak
Naga Abomination Nonhuman Unique
Tashrak's printed Force equals the number of non-Naga Personalities other players control. Tashrak's printed Chi equals the number of Forests you control, plus 2.
Kaiu Haku
Crab Clan Battlemaster Samurai
All printed numerals on Hakus Followers have +1. ...
Bayushi Takaharu
Open: Target a personality. Permanently reduce the Force, Chi, and Personal Honor f Takaharu and the target by one.
pg. 44
¨Permanent¨ means ¨until the game ends.¨ It does not mean the effect can never be undone.
No one is disputing here that Takaharu´s permanent change to a stat can be undone as long as it is a change that isn´t applying to a printed value, but rather a modification to a non-printed value. So our argument revolves around whether P´an Ku sets his chi to a value or changes his printed chi to a value. I will make an argument that the former, not the latter, is true.
In this case, it does not specify a change to a printed stat on P´an Ku. Otherwise it would mention a change to that stat such as Sculpting Flesh or Tashrak (other cards in the same set) did. Kaiu Haku is another case where a change to a printed numeral is specifically mentioned by pointing out that the printed numerals are different. If P´an Ku changed his printed chi, as the previous rulings suggest, he would be formatted to:
Open: Once per turn, target another Personality. Permanently change P´an Ku´s printed chi to the target´s printed chi.
He doesn´t. Per page 22, it is specifying the value to copy. Further, a claim that it has been ruled a certain way for a period of time doesn´t matter one iota. Rulings made during a different rules set can´t be applied after a rulebook rewrite or Sentei no Oni would still rehonor himself every time he used his trait to come back from being dead (in Diamond being dishonored was a permanent change (which he would negate) rather than a card state (which he cannot)).
In summary, P´an Ku doesn´t change his printed chi as his formatting in not in agreeance with such and the penalties caused by Takaharu should be erased after each copying.
[Mod edit: Excessive formatting removed. -ZF]
Chris Fuchs (rules official), 31 October 2006
In response to:
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48700&highlight=pan
Pg. 46 Lotus Edition Rulebook
It is possible to set a stat directly to a particular number. This works by applying whatever bonus or penalty is required to achieve the new value.
...Copying a stat works exactly like setting it to a particular number.
Pg. 22 Stats
Many cards have one or more numeric stats. Any reference to a value on a card refers to its current value unless the ¨base¨or ¨printed¨value is requested.
P´an Ku
...Open: Once per turn, target another Personality. Permanently copy the target´s printed chi.
Sculpting Flesh
Maho Limited: Bow this Shugenja, who must be a Bloodspeaker, and destroy a Personality you control and own: Lose 3 Honor. Create a Shadowlands Nonhuman Goblin Personality card in your home. Set its printed Force and Chi to any values that do not total more than the destroyed Personality's Gold cost.
Tashrak
Naga Abomination Nonhuman Unique
Tashrak's printed Force equals the number of non-Naga Personalities other players control. Tashrak's printed Chi equals the number of Forests you control, plus 2.
Kaiu Haku
Crab Clan Battlemaster Samurai
All printed numerals on Hakus Followers have +1. ...
Bayushi Takaharu
Open: Target a personality. Permanently reduce the Force, Chi, and Personal Honor f Takaharu and the target by one.
pg. 44
¨Permanent¨ means ¨until the game ends.¨ It does not mean the effect can never be undone.
No one is disputing here that Takaharu´s permanent change to a stat can be undone as long as it is a change that isn´t applying to a printed value, but rather a modification to a non-printed value. So our argument revolves around whether P´an Ku sets his chi to a value or changes his printed chi to a value. I will make an argument that the former, not the latter, is true.
In this case, it does not specify a change to a printed stat on P´an Ku. Otherwise it would mention a change to that stat such as Sculpting Flesh or Tashrak (other cards in the same set) did. Kaiu Haku is another case where a change to a printed numeral is specifically mentioned by pointing out that the printed numerals are different. If P´an Ku changed his printed chi, as the previous rulings suggest, he would be formatted to:
Open: Once per turn, target another Personality. Permanently change P´an Ku´s printed chi to the target´s printed chi.
He doesn´t. Per page 22, it is specifying the value to copy. Further, a claim that it has been ruled a certain way for a period of time doesn´t matter one iota. Rulings made during a different rules set can´t be applied after a rulebook rewrite or Sentei no Oni would still rehonor himself every time he used his trait to come back from being dead (in Diamond being dishonored was a permanent change (which he would negate) rather than a card state (which he cannot)).
In summary, P´an Ku doesn´t change his printed chi as his formatting in not in agreeance with such and the penalties caused by Takaharu should be erased after each copying.
[Mod edit: Excessive formatting removed. -ZF]
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48811
You see the red text at the bottom of that post? That, plus this, mean that I'm about to start issuing official warnings to the next person who attempts to rehash the same argument about P'an Ku on this forum. Seriously. He copies printed stats to his printed stats. JeffA clarified that in December of 2004. Hopefully this is the last time I need to post that.