Political Adjunct follow up question

L5R CCG Rules board, 21 April 2005 to 22 April 2005

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 21 April 2005

I'm curious about the ruling on political adjunct and Gozoku Sensei as discussed in http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17575 Citing the ruling

"Using a separate action on a card in battle (e.g., Political Adjunct) to help pay part of the cost of a card out of battle (e.g., Gozoku Sensei) does not satisfy the requirement for relevance. [ML, 29 September 2004]"

Gozoku Sensei "Open: Discard the Favor to bow a Personality. He may not straighten until after you discard the Favor again or his controller pays 6 Gold as an Open action."

Political Adjunct "Political Reaction: During an Attack Phase, bow and destroy Political Adjunct to pay a cost of discarding the Imperial Favor."

Possibility 1.

If I have Samurai Fred attacking a province, and Samurai Bob Defends. I have the Imperal Favour and Gozoku Sensei.

I use the action on Gozoku Sensei to lock Samurai Fred. This is a legal action. I have presence, (Bob) and I have relevance (I'm targeting Fred). I resolve the action on Gozoku sensei, it comes time to play the cost, which I do by discarding the favour. I have payed the cost, so the action resolves.

Possibility 2.

Samurai Fred is still attacking, I'm still defending with Bob. Samurai Joe is at home with his buddy the political adjunct.

Fred attacks, my first action is to use gozoku Sensei to lock him. I have presence, (Bob) why isn't targeting Fred relevant any more? I'm taking an action on Gozku Sensei to target a card in the current battle, I then use political adjunct to pay the cost, instead of discarding the favour as a cost.

The ruling seems to imply that using a barley farm reaction to pay the gold cost of a false trail wouldn't be legal, since barely farm isn't in the battle either, and actions can't be in the battle. It's not the political adjunt taking the action, it's the adjunt paying the cost for an action. So why does the location of the Adjunt matter as long as you meet presence and relevance for the action itself.

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 22 April 2005

I'm curious about the ruling on political adjunct and Gozoku Sensei as discussed in http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17575 Citing the ruling

"Using a separate action on a card in battle (e.g., Political Adjunct) to help pay part of the cost of a card out of battle (e.g., Gozoku Sensei) does not satisfy the requirement for relevance. [ML, 29 September 2004]"

Gozoku Sensei "Open: Discard the Favor to bow a Personality. He may not straighten until after you discard the Favor again or his controller pays 6 Gold as an Open action."

Political Adjunct "Political Reaction: During an Attack Phase, bow and destroy Political Adjunct to pay a cost of discarding the Imperial Favor."

Possibility 1.

If I have Samurai Fred attacking a province, and Samurai Bob Defends. I have the Imperal Favour and Gozoku Sensei.

I use the action on Gozoku Sensei to lock Samurai Fred. This is a legal action. I have presence, (Bob) and I have relevance (I'm targeting Fred). I resolve the action on Gozoku sensei, it comes time to play the cost, which I do by discarding the favour. I have payed the cost, so the action resolves.

Possibility 2.

Samurai Fred is still attacking, I'm still defending with Bob. Samurai Joe is at home with his buddy the political adjunct.

Fred attacks, my first action is to use gozoku Sensei to lock him. I have presence, (Bob) why isn't targeting Fred relevant any more? I'm taking an action on Gozku Sensei to target a card in the current battle, I then use political adjunct to pay the cost, instead of discarding the favour as a cost.

The ruling seems to imply that using a barley farm reaction to pay the gold cost of a false trail wouldn't be legal, since barely farm isn't in the battle either, and actions can't be in the battle. It's not the political adjunt taking the action, it's the adjunt paying the cost for an action. So why does the location of the Adjunt matter as long as you meet presence and relevance for the action itself.

If I remember right, the question that prompted the original ruling was, "Can I use Political Adjunct + Gozoku Sensei to affect a Personality in a battle besides the current one?"