A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
A player, 2 April 2005
Hello.
Political Reaction: After a Straighten Phase ends, bow this card: Name “Dynasty” or “Action”. During that phase, the active player has a maximum Family Honor equal to what it was when the phase began, plus 5. When the phase ends, reduce his true Family Honor to the maximum. This is not a loss.
Political Limited: As a cost, destroy your rightmost Province. Until the beginning of your next turn, the player or players with the highest Family Honor are considered to have Family Honor equal to their starting Family Honor. This is not considered an Honor loss. Honor gains and losses occur as usual during this period and affect the player's true Family Honor.
If a Tribute to your house is played.The Tortoise ambassador "true Family Honor" will make reference to the changed honor from tribute or to the true honor in tribute's text?
So if you have 30 honor and the other player plays tribute and the the tortoise ambassador is used.
your maximun honor will be: changed honor + 5 = starting honor(5) + 5 =10.
When the phase ends,the honor will drop to the maximun.There wont be one exces b/c your honor didnt actualy change (b/c of the tributes effects)
This honor change will trigger anyway,isnt it?
Since the "When the phase ends, reduce his true Family Honor to the maximum. This is not a loss" isnt a honor loss.
-It changes the true honor,"hidden" by tribute?
-Or it considers only the changed honor b/c of tribute's text doing nothing to the true honor hidden by tribute's effects?
(Since the only honor that the holding "sees" is the changed one.)
Thanks.
Greetings.
Martin Lund (rules official), 3 April 2005
Hello.
Political Reaction: After a Straighten Phase ends, bow this card: Name “Dynasty” or “Action”. During that phase, the active player has a maximum Family Honor equal to what it was when the phase began, plus 5. When the phase ends, reduce his true Family Honor to the maximum. This is not a loss.
Political Limited: As a cost, destroy your rightmost Province. Until the beginning of your next turn, the player or players with the highest Family Honor are considered to have Family Honor equal to their starting Family Honor. This is not considered an Honor loss. Honor gains and losses occur as usual during this period and affect the player's true Family Honor.
If a Tribute to your house is played.The Tortoise ambassador "true Family Honor" will make reference to the changed honor from tribute or to the true honor in tribute's text?
So if you have 30 honor and the other player plays tribute and the the tortoise ambassador is used.
your maximun honor will be: changed honor + 5 = starting honor(5) + 5 =10.
When the phase ends,the honor will drop to the maximun.There wont be one exces b/c your honor didnt actualy change (b/c of the tributes effects)
This honor change will trigger anyway,isnt it?
Since the "When the phase ends, reduce his true Family Honor to the maximum. This is not a loss" isnt a honor loss.
-It changes the true honor,"hidden" by tribute?
-Or it considers only the changed honor b/c of tribute's text doing nothing to the true honor hidden by tribute's effects?
(Since the only honor that the holding "sees" is the changed one.)
Thanks.
Greetings.
By my reading, it would adjust your "true" family honor, the total that Tribute is masking, effectively letting you rip someone down from 40+ honor to box + 5 honor.
However, I don't have any real precedent to work with here. I could see arguments going in the other direction, should Jeff choose to make them.
Jeff Alexander (rules official), 5 April 2005
The problem is the phrase "true Family Honor". Tribute and the Advisor use it to mean different things. Tribute uses it to mean "the value it actually has, as opposed to what all effects that only refer to it and don't change it think it is". Tortoise Advisor uses it to mean "the value it would have if it were not being capped by a maximum". Each meaning is clear in isolated context, but each meaning is different, which is a problem now that more than one card uses that phrase.
It is not intended and not acceptable for game balance that these cards combo to change a player's Family Honor directly to (starting Honor + 5) regardless of how high it is. Our final resolution will not allow that. I am discussing with Zen and Marty how best to get there.