Smoke and Mirrors and Fall on Your Knees

L5R CCG Rules board, 22 February 2005

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 22 February 2005

If I fall my opponent's Smoke and Mirrors, do they get another chance to focus or is it my turn?

A player, 22 February 2005

I don't think you can fall on your knees your opponent's smoke and mirrors, you can only keen eye.

A player, 22 February 2005

Remember that if it's a Limited Duel, you can not fall Smoke or anything else.

A player, 22 February 2005

A cancelled action is considered to have never happened.

So (provided you're in the battle action segment) if you Fall a Smoke then you continue play as if the Smoke didn't happen i.e. the player may focus as normal, try another Smoke, or anything else one would normally do on their opportunity to focus.

Were you to, say, Keen Eye it (which negates the effect) your opponent loses the Smoke and his chance to focus.

-Karl

A player, 22 February 2005

if you Fall a Smoke then you continue play as if the Smoke didn't happen i.e. the player may focus as normal

Wrong. You have payed your chance of Focus as a COST to play Smoke.

No costs are refunded [DE Rulebook, Canceling Actions and Negating Effects]

Your opponent can focus or strike. You will lose the duel after Smoke is cancelled, normally.

A player, 22 February 2005

Barring some ruling IP don't know of from the powers that be, I'd have to disagree. Pikachu is right in that a cancelled actions costs that have been paid prior to it's cancellation are not refunded. However, I see the "play instead of focusing" as a restriction to how you play it, similar to the cancellation of a "once per turn" ability. Since the cancelled action is never considered to have taken place at all, and Smoke and Mirrors lacks any text that would make me think that the restriction is a cost instead, I would say that they still have their chance to focus.

~My two cents

A player, 22 February 2005

"Reaction: Play instead of focusing in a duel to discard your opponent's last focus card without effect. Draw a Fate card."

Pikachu is right in that costs from cancelled actions are not refunded. Also (as far as L5R is concerned ) usually the word "to" designates that the text before before the "to" is a cost.

So I think Pikachu's point is quite valid save for the fact that "paying" a "chance to focus" seems wonky. It's not the sort of thing it seems like one can pay, you know? This could be a case of the English on Smoke and Mirrors just being poorly chosen. It seems more like a play restriction than a cost, but we'll have to wait until someone official steps in.

-Karl

Zen Faulkes (rules official), 22 February 2005

If I fall my opponent's Smoke and Mirrors, do they get another chance to focus or is it my turn?

Your turn. As mentioned by others in this thread, your opponent opted to play a Reaction instead of focusing, and cancelled Reactions do not turn back the clock.