This may seem silly, but I just got my hands on the card and was wondering, if you use it's reaction, do you (or even CAN) you shuffle your dynasty deck afterwards?
Gifts and Favors
A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from the Wayback Machine (its copy), so posts it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.
Yes, you reshuful your deck. from my understanding anytime you pick up your dynasty deck from the table and go looking for something you must shuffle it.
akodo rokuro
After searching any deck for a card, reshuffle it.
- Marty Lund
Deputy Rules Monkey
On: Gifts and Favors
Martin Lund wrote:It is under the Cardinal Rules Section of the Rulebook:
The Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 34, Cardinal Rules wrote:
After searching any deck for a card, reshuffle it.
- Marty Lund
Deputy Rules Monkey
If I have Gifts and Favors in play, or still in my deck, can I search my deck for Gifts and Favors exp. (Daimyo's Favor) ?
Can you explain how you got to that conclusion? Or was it just wishful thinking?
you may go to get a gifts and favors any time as long as you bring no gold production holdings into play. you just have to bow your strong hold to do so. from my understanding of it there is nothing that says when you can do it
Akodo Rokuro
Martin Lund wrote:It is under the Cardinal Rules Section of the Rulebook:
The Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 34, Cardinal Rules wrote:
After searching any deck for a card, reshuffle it.
- Marty Lund
Deputy Rules Monkey
Der. Thanks. I assumed so, but without it being stated on the card, I kinda had a brain lapse. Think Ill re-read those rules now.
you may go to get a gifts and favors any time as long as you bring no gold production holdings into play. you just have to bow your strong hold to do so. from my understanding of it there is nothing that says when you can do it
Akodo Rokuro
Yes however expirience gifts and favors doesn`t have the same text as the originial gifts.
you may go to get a gifts and favors any time as long as you bring no gold production holdings into play. you just have to bow your strong hold to do so. from my understanding of it there is nothing that says when you can do it
Akodo Rokuro
Er. It specifically says in the End Phase on the card.
If I have Gifts and Favors in play, or still in my deck, can I search my deck for Gifts and Favors exp. (Daimyo's Favor) ?
What is this card? Sounds like an unreleased card to me, or possibly a promo.
"Daimyo's Favor"? Never heard of it, and I can't find it on any of the card lists. What is it? I MUST KNOW!
Daimyo`s favor is a promo card that was given in spain a few seassons ago,
If I remember well is:
2GP
3GC
Exp. Gifts and Favors
Limited: Bow to produce 2 honor if your family honor is below 20.
Daimyo`s favor is a promo card that was given in spain a few seassons ago,
If I remember well is:
2GP
3GC
Exp. Gifts and Favors
Limited: Bow to produce 2 honor if your family honor is below 20.
Hmm ? Is that me, or this thing totally sucks ?
Togashi Imura
With the information given it does not appear that you could search your dynasty deck for the card because the required text is not on the experienced card.
It doesn't seem like it is that powerful but then again I've never been accused of being the most imaginative person in the room.
Actually, the text of Gifts and Favors says: "Reaction: During your End Phase, if you've brought no Gold-producing Holdings into play this turn, bow your Stronghold to search your deck, then face-down Provinces, for this card. Put the first Gifts and Favors you find into play bowed. If you find none, you lose the game."
It says you can search your deck for this card, but then it says you bring the first Gifts and Favors you find into play bowed. It kind of sounds like you could bring the exp. one into play, using the non-exp. one's text.
Nope. I totally disagree. I can find absolutely no bases for that assumption. While I agree that the Reaction on Gifts and Favors says to get the first copy you come across we know that the card title of the spanish card is Daimyo`s Favor not Gifts and Favors therefore you would just move past it while you were looking through your deck for Gifts and Favors.
I do agree that if you could just search for it on your first turn it could be too powerful.
I do also agree that if the title were the same it would work because Experienced cards retain actions printed on less experienced versions of that card. Generally only after overlay but this card is different.
But can't "Exp. X" be targeted by any card that targets "X"? So since Daimyo's Favor is "Exp. Gifts and Favors", any card that targets Gifts and Favors should be able to target it.
hhhm I see your point but I still have a problem with it. Having Experienced X as a trait still does not make the card title Exprienced X. Also in all cases so far no experienced person, holding, follower or item gains its less experienced version's actions unless/until it is overlayed.
I am enjoying this thread even if the card is not legal and may never see the light of day.
Additionally I want to point out. Even if you are correct you would still need to have a non-experienced version of Gifts out and the new holding would have to be overlayed for it to hit the table.
I'm not saying it gains the action. I'm saying that, if you had a Gifts and Favors in your deck, you could search your deck, and Daimyo's Favor could be the first Gifts and Favors you found.
My brain hurts.
I get it now. So you are going to take an action on a card that is not in play (a truly singular thing about Gifts), perform it and bring into play a card that does not posses the action being performed nor with the required title but it does have the experienced Gifts trait. ok... I guess you might have me there but...
Look at Self-Referential Cards on page 69 of the Diamond rulebook.
That rule makes both your interpretation and my (What I thought was a) kind interpretation incorrect. Diving for the exp version is just plain illegal!
If the card were to become legal.
Ah, but here's the beauty of it all: The trait is not self-referential. It clearly says "The first Gifts and Favors..." Implying that it doesn't necessarily have to be that Gifts and Favors.
But it is, the first Gifts and Favors you come across is in fact the one that you are performing the action from.
Ah, but here's the beauty of it all: The trait is not self-referential. It clearly says "The first Gifts and Favors..." Implying that it doesn't necessarily have to be that Gifts and Favors.
Daimyo's Favor, is not a Gift and Favor. That settles it.
Anyway... you should just wait for a rule authority right now
Togashi Imura
How about you guys wait for a ruling, instead of hypothesizing. If the card isn't even diamond legal, then the arguement is moot.
How about you guys wait for a ruling, instead of hypothesizing. If the card isn't even diamond legal, then the arguement is moot.
So if it's not diamond legal then it can't be used in casual play? It serves absolutely NO purpose, unless it has diamond legality?
I'll wait for an official ruling... for a while. The fact that it's not legal (and likely to never be) doesn't mean we shouldn't argue logic of the rules in general. I still dont agree with that Tsuruchi JJ48 character although I do enjoy stuggling with his/her approach to this hypothetical situation.
Yeah, it's kind of fun having a debate where both sides actually present points, instead of just writing "You're wrong!" "No, you're wrong!" "Well I've been playing for 657 years, so you're wrong!" "Shut up!" "No, you shut up!"
Still, I suppose you guys are right. We've both stated our views and neither side is backing down, so we might as well wait for an official ruling.
mlund wrote:
It is under the Cardinal Rules Section of the Rulebook:
The Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 34, Cardinal Rules wrote:
After searching any deck for a card, reshuffle it.
- Marty Lund
Deputy Rules Monkey
If I have Gifts and Favors in play, or still in my deck, can I search my deck for Gifts and Favors exp. (Daimyo's Favor) ?
WTF?!?! is this a CARD?!?!?! Exp G&F?
Hello.
Self-Referential Cards on page 69 of the Diamond rulebook
You search for the gift & favors card that had the reacction you used.
It is considered that you used the reacction on the first one you find.
From G&F:
Reaction: During your End Phase, if you've brought no Gold-producing
Holdings into play this turn, bow your Stronghold to search your deck,
then face-down Provinces, for this card. Put the first Gifts and
Favors you find into play bowed. If you find none, you lose the game.
The Daimyo's Gift has not the reaction, so it cant be the one you used,
so it isnt targeting itself=> The Daimyo's Gift cant be picked.(card text)
Greetings.
Nope. I totally disagree. I can find absolutely no bases for that assumption. While I agree that the Reaction on Gifts and Favors says to get the first copy you come across we know that the card title of the spanish card is Daimyo`s Favor not Gifts and Favors therefore you would just move past it while you were looking through your deck for Gifts and Favors.
Isn't the card Daimyo's Favor a Gifts and Favors because of the Keyword Rule?
From G&F:
Reaction: During your End Phase, if you've brought no Gold-producing
Holdings into play this turn, bow your Stronghold to search your deck,
then face-down Provinces, for this card. Put the first Gifts and
Favors you find into play bowed. If you find none, you lose the game.
The Daimyo's Gift has not the reaction, so it cant be the one you used,
so it isnt targeting itself=> The Daimyo's Gift cant be picked.(card text).
Ok, so what happends if I have only one gifts and favors in my deck and one exp gifts and favors (BTW, it does have the daimond kanji on it), on my first turn I search for gifts, on my second turn I use the reaction on the gifts I have in play?
Do I put into play the first gifts and favors I found wich could be Daimyo's Favor? Do I lose the game, for not been aible to find "this card"?
Isn't the card Daimyo's Favor a Gifts and Favors because of the Keyword Rule?
Well no it isn't. If Experienced N X is considered breakable (what I do not believe) it is a "Gift and Favor card" which is slightly different from a "Gift and Favor".
By the way, you cannot use the reaction of any Gift and Favor in play.
Now, this thread has achieved something, as far as I'm concerned, from now on I'm see even more reason why G&F is poorly worded
Togashi Imura
The sole reason that G&F works in the first place is that the designers said it works that way. But seriously, you're using the Reaction on the G&F you actually look for.
Hello.
on my first turn I search for gifts, on my second turn I use the reaction on the gifts I have in play?
Do I put into play the first gifts and favors I found wich could be Daimyo's Favor? Do I lose the game, for not been aible to find "this card"?
If you use the reacction on the G&F you have in play=>you cant find it in your deck nor provinces=> you lose the game.
Greetings.
Hello.
If you use the reacction on the G&F you have in play=>you cant find it in your deck nor provinces=> you lose the game.
Greetings.
Gifts & Favors finds the first card titled "Gifts and Favors". It will not find The Daimyo's Gift.
On: Gifts and Favors
Finally. Thanks, Jeff.
Jeff Alexander wrote:Gifts & Favors finds the first card titled "Gifts and Favors". It will not find The Daimyo's Gift.
Thanks Jeff.
Jeff Alexander wrote:Gifts & Favors finds the first card titled "Gifts and Favors". It will not find The Daimyo's Gift.
LOL HA THANK THE FRICKING GODS!
JEFF THANKS A BUNCH!
JeffA wrote:
Gifts & Favors finds the first card titled "Gifts and Favors". It will not find The Daimyo's Gift.
LOL HA THANK THE FRICKING GODS!
JEFF THANKS A BUNCH!
1) Find your left hand
2) No, your other left
3) Find the shift button closest to this hand
4) Push the button right above it.
But if he did that, we wouldn't be able to hear him!
ainanui wrote:
JeffA wrote:
Gifts & Favors finds the first card titled "Gifts and Favors". It will not find The Daimyo's Gift.
LOL HA THANK THE FRICKING GODS!
JEFF THANKS A BUNCH!
1) Find your left hand
2) No, your other left
3) Find the shift button closest to this hand
4) Push the button right above it.
WHY DO YOU WANT HIM TO TYPE A CAPITAL 'A?'
Fine, push the button left above it.