Kenturo + Ashigaru Conscripts

L5R CCG Rules board, 9 June 2015 to 15 June 2015

A topic from AEG's L5R CCG Rules forum, copied for Oracle of the Void from a copy of the forum saved in October 2015, so pages it didn't save are missing. Players' names are left out; the rules officials are named. Rulings are as they stood on these dates; later rulings, the rulebooks and the Rules Archive may differ.

A player, 9 June 2015

Kenturo: http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=12334,#hashid=ecb6a4aed7fbce648de83a63305bb78d,#cardcount=0

Ashigaru Conscripts: http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=611,#hashid=7274714eca41dbc8d96d302bcecbdf4f,#cardcount=0

Kenturo as a reaction creates token Personalities with the traits of Ashigaru and Conscript. These tokens do not have names as far as I'm aware?

His Battle action is as follows: Battle: Bow one or more of your target unbowed Ashigaru Conscripts. Give a target enemy Follower or Personality a Force penalty equal to the number this bowed.

The only way you have any Ashigaru Conscripts for his action is if playing in alternative formats.

Was this intended?

Jon Palmer (rules official), 9 June 2015

Kenturo: http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=12334,#hashid=ecb6a4aed7fbce648de83a63305bb78d,#cardcount=0

Ashigaru Conscripts: http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=611,#hashid=7274714eca41dbc8d96d302bcecbdf4f,#cardcount=0

Kenturo as a reaction creates token Personalities with the traits of Ashigaru and Conscript. These tokens do not have names as far as I'm aware?

His Battle action is as follows: Battle: Bow one or more of your target unbowed Ashigaru Conscripts. Give a target enemy Follower or Personality a Force penalty equal to the number this bowed.

The only way you have any Ashigaru Conscripts for his action is if playing in alternative formats.

Was this intended?

"Ashigaru Conscripts" are cards with the Ashigaru and Conscripts keywords, much in the way Bushido Virtue Strategies are Strategies with the Bushido and Virtue keywords (like Open Emotion), or Nonhuman Shadowlands Personalities are Personalities with the Nonhuman and Shadowlands keywords (such as the Personality required to use Ogre Savagery).

Please note that the created Personalities do have Ashigaru and Conscript as keywords, not traits - it does make a difference in this case. You are correct that the created cards (not tokens, also) do not have titles.

A player, 10 June 2015

RE: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=114071#p1475177

Hi Jon (or whoever answers this )

Just for confirmation, I can't find any other instance which doesn't designate card type. For example Lion guy references "Bushido Virtue Strategies", every nonhuman, Shadowlands etc reference Personalities or Followers.

This is the only example of a card that references traits/keywords in this way without also denoting the card type they should be found on.

Furthermore, all references I can find to things such as "Non-human, Non-Shadowlands Personality" seem to seperate the traits with a comma, whereas things like Lion guy who references Bushido Virtue Strategies do not separate the traits with a comma, not do "positive" (not negative) traits such as "Human Shadowlands Personality", previous rulings have hinged on the interpretation or presentation of the grammar on the card.

Can you just confirm that basically all of the above are irrelevant, the commas, the lack of clarification of the card type etc. do not create any differences and all amount to the same, despite the (slightly) inconsistent templating?

Also, as I'm unable to find the reference in the Comprehensive rules that denotes that "Bow your Ashigaru Conscript" denotes bowing a person with separate keywords of "Ashigaru" and "Conscript", and not just a single keyword of "Ashigaru Conscript" could you direct me to it?

I hate to be picky (in this instance ) but I need to definitively explain to someone why.

Alex Jones (rules official), 15 June 2015

RE: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=114071#p1475177

Hi Jon (or whoever answers this )

Just for confirmation, I can't find any other instance which doesn't designate card type. For example Lion guy references "Bushido Virtue Strategies", every nonhuman, Shadowlands etc reference Personalities or Followers.

This is the only example of a card that references traits/keywords in this way without also denoting the card type they should be found on.

Furthermore, all references I can find to things such as "Non-human, Non-Shadowlands Personality" seem to seperate the traits with a comma, whereas things like Lion guy who references Bushido Virtue Strategies do not separate the traits with a comma, not do "positive" (not negative) traits such as "Human Shadowlands Personality", previous rulings have hinged on the interpretation or presentation of the grammar on the card.

Can you just confirm that basically all of the above are irrelevant, the commas, the lack of clarification of the card type etc. do not create any differences and all amount to the same, despite the (slightly) inconsistent templating?

Also, as I'm unable to find the reference in the Comprehensive rules that denotes that "Bow your Ashigaru Conscript" denotes bowing a person with separate keywords of "Ashigaru" and "Conscript", and not just a single keyword of "Ashigaru Conscript" could you direct me to it?

I hate to be picky (in this instance ) but I need to definitively explain to someone why.

Have you asked these questions about A Champion's Strike? Why are you trying to parse "Ashigaru Conscript" differently to "Unique Samurai"?

A player, 15 June 2015

RE: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=114071#p1476213

The Follower card titled "Ashigaru Conscripts" doesn't have the Conscripts keyword.

Does that mean that Kenturo can only bow cards with both Ashigaru and Conscript keywords, but can't bow the card "Ashigaru Conscripts"?

Can you do that thing like I asked which would be ever so helpful which is pointing to the appropriate place in the rules that governs this please?

Alex Jones (rules official), 15 June 2015

RE: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=114071#p1476213

The Follower card titled "Ashigaru Conscripts" doesn't have the Conscripts keyword.

Does that mean that Kenturo can only bow cards with both Ashigaru and Conscript keywords, but can't bow the card "Ashigaru Conscripts"?

Can you do that thing like I asked which would be ever so helpful which is pointing to the appropriate place in the rules that governs this please?

You can refer to cards by title, subtitle, a keyword or a group of keywords.

The text you're after for keywords or titles doesn't exist; this is a blindspot in the Rules. Compare the new section on Subtitles which has, "Subtitles can be referred to by game text."